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Old 12-07-2000, 04:24 PM   #1
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Post Prohibition against non-marital SEX NOT!


I recently became interested in the biblical basis for church doctrine against non-marital sex.

I excluded adultery, the bible is clear, sex with someone other than your spouse is not OK.

BUT , what if you have no spouse?

***** no FORNICATION right *********

True enough the bible prohibits fornication, fornication in the old testatment is a derivative of the HEBREW for harlot, whore, or prostitute ---- not quite a prohibition against sex, just no sex for cash.

On to the new testament, in every instance of the use of the word Fornication, the GREEK word was porneia [sp] so I looked it up both in Ancient and modern GREEK, guess what it means ????

****** PROSTITUTION ********

and it cant be apologized away to be construed as sex, because there is an explicit word for sex in greek -- erotiki

go figure ---
 
Old 12-07-2000, 04:34 PM   #2
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The prohibition against prostitutes (harlots) in the OT refers to the 'pagan' custom of Temple Prostitutes, forbidden that the daughters of Israel become one. I vaguley remember a passage that seems to imply it's OK to visit a 'regular' prostitute, 'why do yadda yadda when you can get a prostitute for the price of a loaf of bread, can't remember the exact quote or where it's from. even so concubines were okey dokey, David had over 1000 women in his. (BV) before Viagra.
 
Old 12-08-2000, 01:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by karlydee:

I recently became interested in the biblical basis for church doctrine against non-marital sex.

I excluded adultery, the bible is clear, sex with someone other than your spouse is not OK.

BUT , what if you have no spouse?

***** no FORNICATION right *********

True enough the bible prohibits fornication, fornication in the old testatment is a derivative of the HEBREW for harlot, whore, or prostitute ---- not quite a prohibition against sex, just no sex for cash.

On to the new testament, in every instance of the use of the word Fornication, the GREEK word was porneia [sp] so I looked it up both in Ancient and modern GREEK, guess what it means ????

****** PROSTITUTION ********

and it cant be apologized away to be construed as sex, because there is an explicit word for sex in greek -- erotiki

go figure ---
SWEET! SEX FOR ME!!!! WOO HOO!!!!

Seriously though, I think this is very interesting. Personally, I don't really see anything sacred in the institution of marriage -- I do see something sacred in the loving commitment to another being and serious attitude about sexual unity rather than a frivolous one.

I kind of have a problem with a flippant and or casual attitude towards sex. I do feel however, that when sex is seen not as some objective gratification, but as a mutual and shared expression of love and devotion to another, it is beautiful and healthy. Have I had sex with more than one person in my life? Yes I have... but have I gone down to the local club and looked for women to attempt to seducing into having a one night sex fling with me? No I haven't -- objectifiing love and the sexual experience in that way feels very wrong to me.

Any thoughts?

Andrew
 
Old 12-08-2000, 03:39 PM   #4
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If you look in Deuteronomy, there is an entire chapter devoted to crimes against marriage. Addressed in that chapter (Chapter 22) it states:

28 "If a man comes upon a maiden that is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered,

29 the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her. Moreover, he may not divorce her as long as he lives.

So clearly, premarital sex was not allowed. If two people were caught having premarital sex, then they HAD to marry.
 
Old 12-08-2000, 08:55 PM   #5
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only if they were discovered......

 
Old 12-10-2000, 11:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by donnerkeil:
If you look in Deuteronomy, there is an entire chapter devoted to crimes against marriage. Addressed in that chapter (Chapter 22) it states:

28 "If a man comes upon a maiden that is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered,

29 the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her. Moreover, he may not divorce her as long as he lives.

So clearly, premarital sex was not allowed. If two people were caught having premarital sex, then they HAD to marry.
Do YOU do everything the OLD testament commands of you? Have you eaten shellfish? Do you wear clothes made of more than one kind of thread woven together? Do you live in a flat-roofed house?

So, why its this commandment authoritative while other OT commands are not? Especially when there is no NT equivalent as was originally suggested?

 
Old 12-10-2000, 11:51 PM   #7
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How about sex with a non-virgin?
 
Old 12-11-2000, 07:51 AM   #8
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I need to work on my post a bit more. I'll get back.

[This message has been edited by John the Atheist (edited December 11, 2000).]
 
Old 12-11-2000, 08:04 AM   #9
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Hello, karlydee & donnerkeil:

Quote:
I excluded adultery, the bible is clear, sex with someone other than your spouse is not OK.
It seems to be okay, even for incest. Righteous Lot had intercourse with both of his daughters, and no where in the OT or NT does God scorn Lot. In fact, in the NT, it refers to him as righteous Lot. There are quite a few other instances of incest. In another instance, God tells Hosea to go take a whore for a wife. Solomon had 700 wives, which should have been enough, and I could see if they were his wives, he wouldn‘t have any need for any more, but yet he also had 300 concubines too. Another main character is Abraham, and he too not only had concubines, but he gave them away as gifts to his son. Same is true for Saul and many others. Sometimes the concubines bare them a son, such as in Gideon’s case. David is also a main character in the Bible, and he had many lovers, and I’m sure his relationship with Jonathan wasn’t just a friendship. There are passages in the Bible where his son, Absalom copulated with ten of his concubines. After his son had them, David had nothing else to do with them.

So despite having some scriptures forbidding adultery, it was actually quite common among God‘s favorites. None of what I’m describing are isolated cases, it‘s quite the norm. Scriptures upon request, but I’m hoping you can find them.

Take care, John


 
Old 12-11-2000, 01:18 PM   #10
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My biblical scholarship is non existant, but can we determine from the text and context that the prohibition against adultery was only targeted towards women, in that it was forbiddent to sleep with another man's wife, but acceptable for a man to have more than one wife?

It seems to me that polygamy is going to have a social value in an environment where you have high male mortality. One can see the obverse where, in China, I wouldn't be surprised if the surplus of men there led to polyandry.
 
 

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