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Old 01-20-2001, 09:53 PM   #1
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Post Does this seem familiar?

Everyone here is, presumably, familiar with the events surrounding the Biblical description of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...or however you spell the latter city without a spelling checker.

Given those details, am I the only one who finds the following familiar?

Jupiter and Mercury pay a visit incognito to Phrygia to see if the inhabitants are sufficiently virtuous to justify being saved from the flood with they intend to inundate the region. To judge the relative rightousness of the locals, they seek food and shelter. In the entire region, only one couple, Philemon and Baucis grant them what they seek, and as a result are saved by the gods from the flood.
 
Old 01-21-2001, 01:58 AM   #2
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The bible is a compilation of fiction used to teach children of an ideal hero or God. This idea came about 400 years before the arrival of "Jesus". This idea was created by Plato, another one of those greeks- who also said that the myths of the time should be changed, so that children would not emulate gods that were antisocial (against society).

 
Old 01-21-2001, 02:59 AM   #3
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J. Mordecai Pallant wrote;

"Everyone here is, presumably, familiar with the events
surrounding the Biblical description of the destruction
of Sodom and Gomorrah ..."


Kharakov wrote;

This idea came about 400 years before the arrival of
"Jesus". This idea was created by
Plato, ...


Quite interesting! and it fits. I guess I will have
to read Plato. Is this where I will find the story
about "Jupiter and Mercury"?

thanks,
offa


 
Old 01-21-2001, 05:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J. Mordecai Pallant:
Everyone here is, presumably, familiar with the events surrounding the Biblical description of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...or however you spell the latter city without a spelling checker.

Given those details, am I the only one who finds the following familiar?

Jupiter and Mercury pay a visit incognito to Phrygia to see if the inhabitants are sufficiently virtuous to justify being saved from the flood with they intend to inundate the region. To judge the relative rightousness of the locals, they seek food and shelter. In the entire region, only one couple, Philemon and Baucis grant them what they seek, and as a result are saved by the gods from the flood.
</font>
I posted to you on the existence of God board about the nature of mythology. Here is a link to my page where I go into greater detail about how Biblical revelation allows for mythology. Please note, not understanding the principle that the Bible contains mythology but is still true (although not always literal) is part of what I am speaking of in that other thread, about breaking out of the narrow background and realizing that the fundies are not the essence of the Chrsitian tradition. The Biblcal literalist is merely one aspect of Biblical faith. That is a form of theological baggage, and one best outgrown. One need not accept everything in the Bible as literal history in order to understand the reality of God.

Please read the link.


Models of Biblical Revelation


 
Old 01-21-2001, 05:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kharakov:
The bible is a compilation of fiction used to teach children of an ideal hero or God. This idea came about 400 years before the arrival of "Jesus". This idea was created by Plato, another one of those greeks- who also said that the myths of the time should be changed, so that children would not emulate gods that were antisocial (against society).

</font>

How did it come to be that nomds in cannan were influenced by Plato? BTW some schoalrs have traced the influence the other way. The Bibical myths pre-date the Greeks. you are confussing the date of final redaction with the date of authorship.

 
Old 01-21-2001, 06:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Metacrock:

How did it come to be that nomds in cannan were influenced by Plato? BTW some schoalrs have traced the influence the other way. The Bibical myths pre-date the Greeks. you are confussing the date of final redaction with the date of authorship.

</font>

I was actually stating that the ideas that came from the Intellectual center of the world (back in 400 BC) predated christian philosophy (which did not arrive until the supposed arrival of Jesus?) (not jewish thought). The point that Plato made was that any man could come up with this Ideal image of an All powerful, Purely Good, All knowing deity that was a figure to emulate. And that this would be the ideal god to have people in society worship because people would feel a need to emulate such a deity. 400 years later, that type of deity got a start in a little cult named christianity. So- any man could come up with this idea, it just took some people with the skills and know how and will to follow through to do it.

Plato saw the myths of the day as destructive to childrens minds (Such as Chronos killing his farther Auranos). It was better for children to have an all good but strict God to look up too than the gods of the day. The main thing that Plato recognized was that children needed an example to follow, and that many men desired God's to blaim for their inability to cope with the world.

Thus: we give you the legend of Jesus! Come one, come all, the best god ever invented by the mind of man: he will heal all your wounds (just donate money to me at: Ilovejesus2.com), give you paradise, you get 1000 times the money donated to Ilovejesus2.com back when you go to heaven! Sign up now! (Sorry, nobody gets to go to heaven until after they die- yah, we can't prove it, but if you do not follow it you won't go to heaven- so give your money now!). Do this completly selfless act of sacrifice and you will be rewarded!

1. It is not a selfless act- you are attempting to buy your way into heaven with currency that your God gave you- BS!

2. Can't argue with a broken mind- so why do I continually try to help christians? Because I am good, in and of myself, without the benefit of some outside farce ()force.

Gotta go now.. busy.


 
Old 01-21-2001, 09:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J. Mordecai Pallant:
Everyone here is, presumably, familiar with the events surrounding the Biblical description of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...or however you spell the latter city without a spelling checker.

Given those details, am I the only one who finds the following familiar?

Jupiter and Mercury pay a visit incognito to Phrygia to see if the inhabitants are sufficiently virtuous to justify being saved from the flood with they intend to inundate the region. To judge the relative rightousness of the locals, they seek food and shelter. In the entire region, only one couple, Philemon and Baucis grant them what they seek, and as a result are saved by the gods from the flood.
</font>

given this info, the jump that the immediate post makes is unfounded. Similar stories proves....????? It does not prove what K. says. While his position is a plausible consideration, it is not alone to historical research.
 
Old 01-21-2001, 09:34 AM   #8
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Kharakov: I think you have made your point clear about plato, you don't need to post it in every thread, especially when it has nothing to do with the given topic. Besides it isn't even a very compelling theory. The OT outdates plato considerably, so do the prophecies concerning the messiah that Jesus was atempting to fulfill. Plato might have predated Jesus but there is no evidence to suggest that Jesus and his followers were influenced by him in any way.
 
Old 01-21-2001, 04:06 PM   #9
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Smile

Quadwhore:"Plato might have predated Jesus but there is no evidence to suggest that Jesus and his followers were influenced by him in any way."

I don't know about this, first century Jerusalem was full of Hellenistic Jews (they wrote in Greek!)Greeks (Dogs) & Greek Cynic cults. Consider even Egypt was full of Greeks e.g. Cleopatra, the writers of the old testament Septuagint, etc.
 
Old 01-21-2001, 09:44 PM   #10
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[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kharakov:

I was actually stating that the ideas that came from the Intellectual center of the world (back in 400 BC) predated christian philosophy (which did not arrive until the supposed arrival of Jesus?) (not jewish thought). The point that Plato made was that any man could come up with this Ideal image of an All powerful, Purely Good, All knowing deity that was a figure to emulate. And that this would be the ideal god to have people in society worship because people would feel a need to emulate such a deity. 400 years later, that type of deity got a start in a little cult named christianity. So- any man could come up with this idea, it just took some people with the skills and know how and will to follow through to do it.
Quote:

Meta =&gt; That's just the point. You say you aren't talking about Jewish thought, but that Christians got he idea from Plato who gave them the notion of an all powerful god. The problem is, the people who became the first Chrsitians grew up with the notion of an all powerful God which they got form Judaism. They weren't atheists who just suddenly got the notion of God when Jesus talked about him, they grew up with it because it came form Judaism. Jesus was a Jew and he was claiming to be the fulfillment of Jewish theology, he worhsiped the JEwish God and claimed to be the Jewish Messiah. and all that pre-dates Plato.


Quote:
Plato saw the myths of the day as destructive to childrens minds (Such as Chronos killing his farther Auranos). It was better for children to have an all good but strict God to look up too than the gods of the day. The main thing that Plato recognized was that children needed an example to follow, and that many men desired God's to blaim for their inability to cope with the world.</font>
Meta =&gt; But that is pretty removed form the historical context of Christianity. The Jewish Christians of Palestine were not concerned with Saturn and Chronos and so forth. I dont' think Plato was very important to Hellinization. They already had the notion of God that Jesus spoke of, it came from Judaism.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Thus: we give you the legend of Jesus! Come one, come all, the best god ever invented by the mind of man: he will heal all your wounds (just donate money to me at: Ilovejesus2.com), give you paradise, you get 1000 times the money donated to Ilovejesus2.com back when you go to heaven! Sign up now! (Sorry, nobody gets to go to heaven until after they die- yah, we can't prove it, but if you do not follow it you won't go to heaven- so give your money now!). Do this completly selfless act of sacrifice and you will be rewarded!</font>
Meta =&gt; I think you really need to study history a lot more. Jesus was claiming to be the fulfillment of the Jewish expectation of Messiah. He didnt' just make up a notion of God and then tell everyone, an audience of people who never thought about God beofore, He as fulfilling the God of the OT and thep promise of Messiah made by the prophets.All of your analysis of Heaven and so forth is a totally inadequate representation of Christian theology. Before you can really demonstrate a critique of Chrsitianity you should really try to find out what it says.

1. It is not a selfless act- you are attempting to buy your way into heaven with currency that your God gave you- BS!


Meta =&gt;This is merely your bad understanding of Christian theology, it has nothing to do with the Plato thing.

2. Can't argue with a broken mind- so why do I continually try to help christians? Because I am good, in and of myself, without the benefit of some outside farce ()force.

Gotta go now.. busy.

[/B]

MEta =&gt; ahahjahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaah ahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahaah,,


you are the one with the borken mind. Your undertanding of Christianity is aburd and shollow and has little to do with what the reilgion acutally says. You dont' seem to understand the historical context at all. And to top all of that off, you than have the arrogance to pretend that your hateful bigotry is an attept to help people? haha!

I was an atheist, I know what a bankrupt position that is. I was a good atheist, I was an effective arguer for atheism. There were no Chrsitains that I couldn't bash in argument. I spoiled them in argument time and time again, until I was finally forced to really come to terms witht he facts rather than my own self serving opinions. When I had to finally face what Christian theologians really say, and the actual evidence for the validity of it, and the reliaty of it in people's lives, I realized how aburd it is to claim that Christians are ignorant and can't think. The evangelizing athiest with the line about helping people is the one who isn't thinking.

 
 

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