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Old 06-02-2001, 04:51 AM   #1
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Question rewriting of the old testament by hebrews in BC

I no of Hebrews writting Enoch and other books in 200bc but I`m also under the impression that books of o/t canon supposedly written by moses were rewritten after Hebrews returned to Israel from Babylon. But whatI want to now is what books were rewriten and what is inttact and from an original source(ie. isiah, other prophets,psalms and proverbs,all chronicals and moses`s five books)?What infomation did the hebrews use to rewrite these books and what books was it that thay rewrote?
 
Old 06-02-2001, 09:03 AM   #2
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by truthseekar:
I no of Hebrews writting Enoch and other books in 200bc but I`m also under the impression that books of o/t canon supposedly written by moses were rewritten after Hebrews returned to Israel from Babylon. But whatI want to now is what books were rewriten and what is inttact and from an original source(ie. isiah, other prophets,psalms and proverbs,all chronicals and moses`s five books)?What infomation did the hebrews use to rewrite these books and what books was it that thay rewrote?</font>

No one really knows. But there are two basic approaches to understanding the redaction of the OT. The European/American appraoch that has been the most used since the 19th century came from the Wellhausen school at Tubengien, called "JEDP." These letters stand for documents, J documnet, E document and so forth. These are hypothetical documents like Q, we don't have them. They are reconstructed from the use of the names for God and other things in the OT. This is also called "source cirticism."

J = Y. the name for God, E = Eloheim, D = Dueteronimical, P= preistly. The theory being that the use of the name Y indicates the sourthern influces of the very early period where Y was the name most often used for God. That is totally theoretical. The E was the northern influence where Eloheim was used for God. Deuteronomical was the laws code and Preistly was the final redaction after the exile where the Preists put it all together.

Israeli archaeologists don't use JEDP because there is no textual backing for it. They use Cetz'n Leibin or "setting in life." They go by how many camels are mentioned in the text,for example. It says Abraham had x camels, and we know that in x period they used camels more than horses so that is probably from that period. In other words they exmaine the historical setting to see how accurate the story is and what time period it emerges from.

Using that method the OT is seen to be more accurate and unified than the assumptions of source criticism.

While that method doesn't tell us anything about texts, some scholars have used to as a spring board for speculation about other souces that my lie behind the text. Many of these are actually mentioned in the OT itself. For example in the stories of DAvid it metions several times a book called "Asaph" from which David and Johothan learned Archery. It also says at one point "was this not written in the books of Asaph?" Also it says several times "is not all of this recorded in the book of the Kings." Some think this is not an allusion to the 1&2 Kings in modern Bible but to a book we don't have now.

So some feel that these are mentions of a previous "bible" the bible that David had and that was used in their day, which would mean that much of the material is coming from a previous canon that we know nothing of now. There are several such books mentioned but these are the only two I can recall off hand.
 
Old 06-05-2001, 07:32 AM   #3
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metacrock,(or anyone else)when the hebrews came out of babylon,
1. Did thay write the first five books of the bible then.
2.If so from what sources did thay draw from.
3. Is genesis riddled with Babylonian mytholigy as it seems to appear.
4. Were all hebrews writings destroyed in the babalonian captivity or were there books that we still have in the canon written earlier than this period.
 
Old 06-05-2001, 08:08 AM   #4
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by truthseekar:
I no of Hebrews writting Enoch and other books in 200bc but I`m also under the impression that books of o/t canon supposedly written by moses were rewritten after Hebrews returned to Israel from Babylon. But whatI want to now is what books were rewriten and what is inttact and from an original source(ie. isiah, other prophets,psalms and proverbs,all chronicals and moses`s five books)?What infomation did the hebrews use to rewrite these books and what books was it that thay rewrote?</font>
Really really REALLY reaching back into memory here, so somebody help me fill in the blanks.

I saw a program on TLC? DSC? a couple years ago that was discussing some (one?) of the OT books. This was the book (I think) that give all the OT laws. The book was "re-discovered" by the King who re-united the kingdom (not David) but scholars believe that it was actually written by his scribe. Like I said, I only remember the most basic of details here. Anybody else see the show or know what they were talking about? Perhaps Richard Carrier?

Thanks.

(Funny - this story could be talking about
the Mormons...)

 
Old 06-05-2001, 08:10 AM   #5
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Truthseeker, I don't want to discourage you from reading Metacrock's post, but read with caution. He has particular views across a range of issues and tends to interpret trends of scholarship consistent with those views.

May I ask, how much energy do you care to devote to this question? It's a topic upon which a great deal has been written. If you let us know your level of interest, we can better direct you to appropriate resources. Also, are you more interested in the historical or theological issues?
 
Old 06-06-2001, 04:29 AM   #6
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-----------------------------------------------
jubalh:
May I ask, how much energy do you care to devote to this question? It's a topic upon which a great deal has been written. If you let us know your level of interest, we can better direct you to appropriate resources. Also, are you more interested in the historical or theological issues?
-------------------------------------------

thanks for asking.
this is a Questian that has gone unanswered for a while for me and now has become my soul biblical Questian for both historical and theological reasons.(I want to know if moses,david ,solomon and so on had there influince directly on the writings or by those in the future writing about these characters in the past from memory of old script that had been destroyed and many more Q like that.
I`m willing to put in as much time and effort until I fully understand the whole make up of the old testament with all of its books.so please , if you now of any resorces that I can use to answer my questions I would greatly appreciate it as I can`t seem to come up with much.
 
Old 06-06-2001, 05:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kosh:
Really really REALLY reaching back into memory here, so somebody help me fill in the blanks.

I saw a program on TLC? DSC? a couple years ago that was discussing some (one?) of the OT books. This was the book (I think) that give all the OT laws. The book was "re-discovered" by the King who re-united the kingdom (not David) but scholars believe that it was actually written by his scribe. Like I said, I only remember the most basic of details here. Anybody else see the show or know what they were talking about? Perhaps Richard Carrier?

Thanks.

(Funny - this story could be talking about
the Mormons...)

</font>
The book is Deuteronomy and the king is Josiah. He really didn't really re-unite the kingdom since there was no Northern Kingdom left in his time, it having been quashed by Assyria.
 
Old 06-08-2001, 10:34 AM   #8
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Hey truthseeker, I posted this information early yesterday, but apparently it got lost (along with a bunch of other posts) due to problems with the server. Here it is again.

Surprisingly, the best place to start (IMHO) is an article on biblical literature in the Encyclopedia Britannica. But expect to spend a couple hours and have a cup of tea or something at your elbow, for it's a rather extensive discussion.

Then, I would recommend two books from roughly opposing points of view, which would give you some balance: The Bible Unearthed by Finkelstein and Silberman, and Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Eliot Friedman.
 
Old 06-09-2001, 03:25 AM   #9
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JubalH
Secular Web Regular posted June 08, 2001 11:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey truthseeker, I posted this information early yesterday, but apparently it got lost (along with a bunch of other posts) due to problems with the server. Here it is again.
Surprisingly, the best place to start (IMHO) is an article on biblical literature in the Encyclopedia Britannica. But expect to spend a couple hours and have a cup of tea or something at your elbow, for it's a rather extensive discussion.

Then, I would recommend two books from roughly opposing points of view, which would give you some balance: The Bible Unearthed by Finkelstein and Silberman, and Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Eliot Friedman.
-----------------------------------------------

jubalh
thanks very much for this info . I`m going to get strait on to it , thanks

[This message has been edited by truthseekar (edited June 09, 2001).]
 
 

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