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Old 06-13-2001, 05:58 AM   #1
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Question What is the oldest independently verifiable event in the OT?

This is way out of my sphere of knowledge - I am just interested.

I presume that the only means of independently verifying OT events is by comparing with Egyptian history. I therefore would guess the oldest verifiable event is going to be something like the enslavement of the Jews.

Do we have an accurate date for this?

Do we have an accurate date for any earlier events?

Do we have any evidence that independently verifies that any earlier events/people actually happened/existed (regardless of dating)?

 
Old 06-13-2001, 11:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thinker:
What is the oldest independently verifiable event in the OT?
</font>
Creation

Matt
 
Old 06-13-2001, 12:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matt:
Creation

Matt
</font>
You mean "God said let there be light?"

That is not independently verifiable because it assumes the existence of God.

Serious answers anyone?

 
Old 06-13-2001, 01:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thinker:
This is way out of my sphere of knowledge - I am just interested.

I presume that the only means of independently verifying OT events is by comparing with Egyptian history. I therefore would guess the oldest verifiable event is going to be something like the enslavement of the Jews.

Do we have an accurate date for this?

Do we have an accurate date for any earlier events?

Do we have any evidence that independently verifies that any earlier events/people actually happened/existed (regardless of dating)?

</font>
thinker, I could be mistaken but I don't believe there is any Egyptian record of the enslavement of the Hebrews.... and they were meticulous record-keepers. I'll have to do a little research to verify my memory, however.
 
Old 06-13-2001, 03:54 PM   #5
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Smile

"thinker, I could be mistaken but I don't believe there is any Egyptian record of the enslavement of the Hebrews.... and they were meticulous record-keepers. I'll have to do a little research to verify my memory, however."
K is right, there is evidense of a city where the workers who built Ramses the Great's grain storage houses, but no indication they were slaves or Jews AFAIK.
I think there is evidense that Egypt invaded Israel at some point after David, & the Jews were taken into captivity in Babylon in Daniels time. There may also have been a great flood 7 to 11,000 years ago when the Black Sea was created by the Mediterranian Sea overflowing at the end of the last ice age.

 
Old 06-13-2001, 05:33 PM   #6
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Possibly the Tower of Babel.
William Loftus discovered an inscription on the remains of a tower and translated it:
"...the most ancient monument of Babylon;
I [Nebuchadnezzar] built and finished it....
A former king built it, (they reckon 42 ages) but he did not complete its head. Since a remote time, people had abandoned it, without order expressing their words..."
However he discovered it in the 19th Century, and I can find nothing more recent confirming his translation.
Also the Catholic Encyclopaedia doesn't seem to know anything about this.

Just going off a very uncertain memory here, but I think there is some evidence for the existence of Abraham himself.
At anyrate it has been verified that the depiction of customs etc from Abraham's time onwards are accurate. Which suggests that even if the story is made-up the author at least had good knowledge of the setting.
The Catholic Encyclopaedia has a worthwhile section on Abraham.
 
Old 06-14-2001, 10:22 AM   #7
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There is some dispute over Jericho.
It was a walled city, and the walls did fall. But no one can agree when or why.

Non rabidly religious archaeologists apparently believe that they fell from age/earthquake, while rabid ones feel the earthquake was an act of god.

However, they fell centuries before the bible says they did, apparently.

AFAIK, that is the earliest. David et al were real kings, so they may be the earliest real thing, though.
 
Old 06-14-2001, 10:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jess:
There is some dispute over Jericho.
It was a walled city, and the walls did fall. But no one can agree when or why.

Non rabidly religious archaeologists apparently believe that they fell from age/earthquake, while rabid ones feel the earthquake was an act of god.

However, they fell centuries before the bible says they did, apparently.

AFAIK, that is the earliest. David et al were real kings, so they may be the earliest real thing, though.
</font>
If I remember correctly, there were two monuments left foreign nations (from the Israelite perspective) which attest to the existence of David as King of Israel. One was just discovered five or six years ago.
 
Old 06-14-2001, 01:35 PM   #9
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Possibly the account of Jacob 'n' sons going to Egypt has some basis in history. We're pretty sure that Egypt received spasmodic immigration from the areas around it, including what is now Palestine/Israel. I don't think there are any records about the Exodus from Egypt, though, from Egyptian sources.
 
Old 06-14-2001, 04:52 PM   #10
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for future reference:

= "just kidding!"
 
 

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