FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Biblical Criticism - 2001
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-30-2001, 03:49 PM   #1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post Who is Carsten Peter Thiede?

I have been trying to find some information on Carsten Peter Thiede. He has been referred to as a "scholar" by another poster, but I can't find anything to substantiate that claim.

In his book, Eyewitness to Jesus: Amazing New Manuscipt Evidence About the Origins of the Gospels, Thiede is said to be "Director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, Germany." He is also called a "German biblical scholar" by the co-author of the book. See page 1.

According to Professor Daryl D. Schmidt, in a scathing review of Thiede's book, Rekindling the Word: In Search of Gospel, "Thiede has never held an academic post (he directs his own institute) and his claims...have been dismissed as utterly groundless by reputable scholars." Dr. Schmidt also states, "The only scholarly article Thiede has ever written on the subject [of the Magdalen Papyrus (P66)]" was "in a hard-to-find technical journal, Zeitschrift fur Papyrologie und Epigraphik."

If someone knows if Carsten Peter Thiede has any training in the field of NT criticism, papyrology, or even the delights of drinking German beer, please let me know. Anyone can start his own institute and have a co-author call him a scholar. Only years of training and study actually makes one.

rodahi
 
Old 04-30-2001, 04:17 PM   #2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

From When Was the New Testament Written? by John Ross Schroeder

Professor Thiede is director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, Germany. He is a lecturer at the University of Geneva, Switzerland (since 1978), and a life member of the Institute of Germanic Studies, University of London.

This thread poses an interesting issue however. If the person giving an opinion is neither a scholar, nor a professor, then is his or her opinion to be discounted automatically, or should we be required to examine the arguments themselves?

The answer to this question has interesting implications for these discussion boards.

Nomad
 
Old 04-30-2001, 04:40 PM   #3
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nomad:
From When Was the New Testament Written? by John Ross Schroeder

Professor Thiede is director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, Germany. He is a lecturer at the University of Geneva, Switzerland (since 1978), and a life member of the Institute of Germanic Studies, University of London.

This thread poses an interesting issue however. If the person giving an opinion is neither a scholar, nor a professor, then is his or her opinion to be discounted automatically, or should we be required to examine the arguments themselves?

The answer to this question has interesting implications for these discussion boards.

Nomad
</font>
What training has Thiede had? That is what I want to know. I HAVE read his literature. His arguments lack substance. That is why no real scholar takes him seriously.

BTW, think about what you have said about G.A. Wells, John Shelby Spong, Morton Smith, John Dominic Crossan, Robert Funk, Helmut Koester, et al. Should we be required to examine their arguments,i.e, READ THEIR BOOKS, before disparaging them? The fact that you never have bothered reading them hasn't stopped you from attacking them personally. You are a walking, talking contradiction, Nomad.

rodahi



[This message has been edited by rodahi (edited April 30, 2001).]
 
Old 04-30-2001, 06:02 PM   #4
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If the person giving an opinion is neither a scholar, nor a professor, then is his or her opinion to be discounted automatically, or should we be required to examine the arguments themselves?</font>
Well, does he agree or disagree with you?
 
Old 04-30-2001, 06:24 PM   #5
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nomad:

Professor Thiede is director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, Germany. He is a lecturer at the University of Geneva, Switzerland (since 1978), and a life member of the Institute of Germanic Studies, University of London.

Nomad
</font>
One can become a Life Member of the Institute of Germanic Studies by.....applying. The directions are here. Why anyone would put this down as an academic qualification escapes me.

http://www.sas.ac.uk/igs/HPMEMBERSHIP.htm#MEMBERSHIP

I ran all the permutations of Carston Thiede through the search program at the U of Geneva and got nothing. You can try for yourself.

http://www.unige.ch/uniweb/search.html

I do not regard that as definitive. He could well have moved on since that book was written. Or I screwed up, or the search program doesn't work right. But it is suggestive.

Michael
 
Old 04-30-2001, 06:25 PM   #6
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Hello again Gentlemen

First, what is your problem rodahi? You asked about Carsten Thiede, I have told you about Carsten Thiede. You previously asserted that he is not a professor. That has now been shown to have been in error. If you are more interested in what he has done or where his accreditation comes from, then look it up, or write to him. I have answered each of your queries, only to be hit with yet more goal post moving questions. He holds a professorship with an actual university. Perhaps they hire amateurs in Europe, I do not know, but from this point forward I hope you will focus on the man's arguments, and not his educational credits. Thiede's appear to be quite solid, and if you open this can of worms, I am not certain that you and your cheering section will be happy as to where that leads you. (Just a caution BTW ).

Now, SD, to answer your question, I find that Thiede tends to overstate his case, and draw conclusions that are not supported fully by the evidence. At the same time, I enjoy reading him because he is not afraid to push the envelope in papyrology, taking chances and forcing many in his field to question their own assumptions. If, at the end of the day those assumptions prove to be well founded, then the challenge is still worth it in my view, as it prevents us from slipping into group think, afraid to challenge the prevailing mood.

Thanks again for the discussion, but if all I have to look forward to from rodahi is boring ad hominem and rants, then I would say that discussions between he and I will once again become very short. No doubt that will save both of us a great deal of time. It might even please him.

Rodahi, you get to have the last word on this thread.

Peace gentlemen.

Nomad

[This message has been edited by Nomad (edited April 30, 2001).]
 
Old 04-30-2001, 07:10 PM   #7
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SingleDad:
Well, does he agree or disagree with you?</font>
As you suspected, Thiede's case is not well-supported.

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awstruth/Thiede.html

Also, I have no idea how Nomad can consider him to be holding a faculty appointment, since he is apparently not at the university of Geneva. He may be at some other post....

Michael

[This message has been edited by turtonm (edited April 30, 2001).]
 
Old 04-30-2001, 07:14 PM   #8
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nomad:
Hello again Gentlemen

First, what is your problem rodahi? You asked about Carsten Thiede, I have told you about Carsten Thiede. You previously asserted that he is not a professor. That has now been shown to have been in error. If you are more interested in what he has done or where his accreditation comes from, then look it up, or write to him. I have answered each of your queries, only to be hit with yet more goal post moving questions. He holds a professorship with an actual university. Perhaps they hire amateurs in Europe, I do not know, but from this point forward I hope you will focus on the man's arguments, and not his educational credits. Thiede's appear to be quite solid, and if you open this can of worms, I am not certain that you and your cheering section will be happy as to where that leads you. (Just a caution BTW ).

Now, SD, to answer your question, I find that Thiede tends to overstate his case, and draw conclusions that are not supported fully by the evidence. At the same time, I enjoy reading him because he is not afraid to push the envelope in papyrology, taking chances and forcing many in his field to question their own assumptions. If, at the end of the day those assumptions prove to be well founded, then the challenge is still worth it in my view, as it prevents us from slipping into group think, afraid to challenge the prevailing mood.

Thanks again for the discussion, but if all I have to look forward to from rodahi is boring ad hominem and rants, then I would say that discussions between he and I will once again become very short. No doubt that will save both of us a great deal of time. It might even please him.

Rodahi, you get to have the last word on this thread.

Peace gentlemen.

Nomad

[This message has been edited by Nomad (edited April 30, 2001).]
</font>
Well, he doesn't have the credentials of Doherty does he?
 
Old 04-30-2001, 07:28 PM   #9
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nomad:
Hello again Gentlemen

First, what is your problem rodahi? You asked about Carsten Thiede, I have told you about Carsten Thiede. You previously asserted that he is not a professor. That has now been shown to have been in error.


Nomad, I have no problem. It is you who champions the idiosyncratic theories of pseudo-scholars, not I. Young Kyu Kim and Carsten Peter Thiede are perfect examples.

Nomad: If you are more interested in what he has done or where his accreditation comes from, then look it up, or write to him.

You seem so "high" on him, I thought YOU knew something about his academic credentials.

Nomad: I have answered each of your queries, only to be hit with yet more goal post moving questions. He holds a professorship with an actual university. Perhaps they hire amateurs in Europe, I do not know, but from this point forward I hope you will focus on the man's arguments, and not his educational credits.

We shall see how long it takes before you attack the likes of G. A. Wells or Earl Doherty INSTEAD of their "arguments."

Nomad: Thiede's appear to be quite solid, and if you open this can of worms, I am not certain that you and your cheering section will be happy as to where that leads you. (Just a caution BTW ).

I am ready to debate ANY of Thiede's arguments. Let's go, Nomad!

rodahi


[This message has been edited by rodahi (edited May 06, 2001).]
 
Old 04-30-2001, 08:37 PM   #10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rodahi:

Nomad: I have answered each of your queries, only to be hit with yet more goal post moving questions. He holds a professorship with an actual university. Perhaps they hire amateurs in Europe, I do not know, but from this point forward I hope you will focus on the man's arguments, and not his educational credits.

rodahi: We shall see how long it takes before you attack the likes of G. A. Wells or Earl Doherty INSTEAD of their "arguments."</font>
I have not attacked Doherty at all rodahi, merely his arguments. At the same time, if I was to employ your methods on this thread (and the ones dealing with Kim) then where would that leave us?

Nomad
 
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:03 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.