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Old 06-04-2001, 08:40 PM   #1
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Question Bible question

I am having a debate with some friends, and am hoping someone here can help. According to the bible, approximately how long ago was the earth "created"? I think I remember it being 10,000, so how do they explain the fact that dinosaurs were roaming the Earth 65 million years ago?
 
Old 06-04-2001, 10:45 PM   #2
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Hi Wicket,
What the Bible says about the age of the earth has been hotly debated in recent times. What we have of the writings of the Church Fathers (100-700AD or thereabouts) make clear that they did not believe the Bible gave any set age to the earth.
In more recent centuries the release and subsequent acceptance by the more Fundamental Christians of chronologies such as Bishop Ussher's have caused great debate. According to a absolutely literal reading of the English version of Genesis it can be calculated that the "Bible says" that creation occurred in 4004 BC. People who believe this are normally called Young Earth Creationists.
Many hold that the geneologies given in genesis are not chronologies. Genesis says things like "When he was 70, Terah begat Abraham". The word "begat" might mean "son of" thus meaning that Abraham was born when Terah was 70. But an alturnative rendering is "had a child from whom was descended". Thus meaning that when Terah was 70 he had a child from whom would later be descended Abraham. For the purposes of chronology this means that there could be a lot of unnaccounted time used here and many of the less strict Young Earth Creationists allow creation dates of up to 20,000 BC.

Of course most of the rest of Christians think Young Earth Creationists are pretty wacko. The main point of contention is the words "yom" in Genesis 1 translated "day". All Young Earthers insist it's meaning a 24 hour day (as opposed to an age). There are good reasons to think it doesn't, but I'm not going to go into any unless you really, really want me to.
So, make sure you understand: "The Bible" doesn't "say" that the earth is 4000 or 20,000 years old. That is merely what a minority of Christians choose to read into it.

How do they support their wierd theories in the face of modern science?
With their own "better" science of course. They challenge almost every single point of modern astronomy, geology and archeology. Don't get me wrong, they do often raise some quite interesting problems with current theories in some areas. But they combine these complaints in with so many other pseudo-problems that it normally isn't worth the time to check out the arguments because 9 times out of 10 their arguments don't stand up.
To some extent I agree with them: I think modern science has got a bit too full of itself with just how accurate it is and if you triple some of the uncertainties you'd probably be nearer the truth. In all matters relating to science I recommend a good measure of doubt in all current theories: The whole point of scientific progress is to replace today's theories with better ones tommorrow.

For the record (I'm a Christian), I'm entirely happy with a 16 or so billion year old universe and a 3.5 billion year old earth.

I hope that sufficiently answers your question,
-Tercel
 
Old 06-05-2001, 12:05 PM   #3
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wicket:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am having a debate with some friends, and am hoping someone here can help. According to the bible, approximately how long ago was the earth "created"? I think I remember it being 10,000, so how do they explain the fact that dinosaurs were roaming the Earth 65 million years ago?
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two biblical theorys;
1st theory: In the kjv of the bible creation story it says in genesis ch2 v4 these are the (GENERATIONS)of the heavens and the earth in the day(day plural ,but it`s talking about 7 days) that thay WHERE created.
It seem`s to me that a day could of been a genaration or age . Peter say`s, to god a thousand yrs is as a day.

second theory; Is a little longwinded but is interesting , this is what I have heared from christian scientists that theoreticlly answers allot of questions.
as scientist work alot with theory based from certin facts I will cover alot of questians with christian scientific theorys using the bible as the foundation to this theory and speculation from mythology.

this will be based on the flood of noah(keeping in mind that almost every culture in history has a flood story).

NOW: let`s look at how the earth could have been according to the bible before the flood.
I will show how I believe the flood was much more than just a flood, from the bible, and caused the death of the dinosours and throws dating out the window.

(all scriptures I will use are in genesis)

1.get a globe of the planet ,notice it spins off its axis, now spin it until all you see is ocean, then spin it around until all you see is land split by ocean. notice 2 things , 1. isreal is in the middle off the whole world. 2. notice how the earth could fit together like a jiggsaw into one land mass which would shrink the earth to almost a third the size it is ( I`m shore we`ve all heared scientific theorys for this happening over millions of years).


2: ch 1 v 7; and god formed man from the dust of the ground,AND BREATH INTO HIS NOSTRELS THE BREATH OF LIFE,and man became a living soul. also ch 7 v 22. point; our life is in our breath , so if those before the flood lived almost a thousand years and after the flood mans life dropped below 120 (conferms many theorys about the fall of man). This suggests a mass change in atmospheric and earthly environment .so lets spekulate a bit with this. If the gravity and density of the oxygen changed wouldn`t that make it harder to breath and therfore restrict not only our breathing but our ability to move over the earth freely (ie . needing car`s or horses)and therfore reduce our lifespan drasticlly.

3:I`t had never rained before the flood , after the flood was an appearance of a rainbow for the first time ever and it was more than just rain for the first time , this nearly destroyed the hole earth.(I will show how) read:ch 2 v 5&6 god hadn`t caused it to rain & the mist watered the ground. ch 9 v 11 neither shall there anymore be a flood to DESTROY THE EARTH. ch 9 v 13 i do set my bow in the cloud(for the first time).

4:ch 1 v 6&7 I believe the firmiment was made out of water and orbited the earth before the flood , giving the earth an atmesphere that dropped alot of dew but didn`t rain.

5:ch 7 v 11 & ch 8 v 2 causes me to believe there were extreame amounts of water under the earth. called fountains of the deep(as ther still are ).

6:ch 6 v 4 first, i don`t want to address the issue of the sons of god and daughters of men to much in this (althou it is majorlly relevant)exept for 2 things , first , notice how the giants (naphilim) are not linked to the offspring of SOG & DOM. these are diffrent creatures again to the offspring (called mighty men not giants).I believe these gaints (naphilim) were dinosours.
7: ch 6 v 4 now we look at the mighty men which were men of renown(OF WAR OR KINGSHIP). I don`t want to address who the parents were ( due to diffrent opinions and it`s not the point.)but.
8: ch 6 v11 to 13 there children intridused extreame violence into the world this violence spread throu every thing as thay were responsible for much war and bloodshed and slaghter of man and anamals .the book of Enoch , writed in 200 bc by jews talks alot about this and says that these children destroyed the world by eating the flesh of anamals and man, it says thay are responsible for civilization as a whole.

a brief look now.(to get the context of all this) this violence eventually caused the earth it`s self to become violent( as our world seems to be approching such violence)ch6 v 13for the earth is filled with violence throu them.

so now lets take a brief look at the world before the flood and i`ll show you my theory of why scientists dating is imposible.

1:the world was a third the size it is now ,sptit by rivers(not oceans).

2:life is in our breath and that would adjust our life span due to change in atmosphere.(from 1000 to 120)

3:It had never rained before it only dropped dew shows diffrent atmosphere.

4: water made up the firmiment in the upper atmosphere.

5:under the earth was water , the fountains of the deep.

6:the gaints (nephilim) are dinosours .

7: mighty men from s o god & d o men born into the world.

8: mighty men bring much violence to the earth even causing the earth to become violent.

SO,lets see what happened to the earth;
ch 7 v 11&12,In the 600th year of noah`s life , in the second month, on 17th day of the month (this wasn`t rain , listen)THE SAME DAY WERE ALL THE FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP BROKEN UP(SEPERATING OF THE NATIONS) and the windows of heaven were opened (the firmament collapsed).now read ch 8 v 1,2&3 god made a wind blow over the earth and the waters asswaged. The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped , and then it stoped raining , and the waters returned off the earth.

bear with me and hear`s the theory:

before the flood man lived 1000 yrs and moved across an earth a third the size of ours with a better atmosphere , easyer to breath with less gravity, which extended our life. there was no rain on this earth but dew no oceans but rivers. there were dinosours in the earth then and the earth spun on it`s axis upwrite( dinousors survival was dependent on the lighter gravity).due to mans long life and his drawing to wickedness(dic. twisted)he only caused what was evil upon the earth until the earth eventually became violent back(as is happening now)
NOW, due to atmospheric presure the earth spins of it`s axis , the earth bracks open and the fountains of the deep burst forth so high that it bracks the water firmament in the sky , now we have the firmament collapsing and the fountains bursting and the whole earth is now in a major upheaval untill finally things begin to settle and then a wind covers the earth as the earth finds its orbit on its new axis.
God saves noah and his family and as much of god creation as posibble but the dinosours and many others perished in the chaos. By this time the earth had expanded to the size we have now, gravity and oxygen became dence,that shortened human life from 1000 to 120 yrs , it rained for the first time and clouds appeared for the first time and a rain bow appeared for the first time.
This was not a heavy storm but a major earthly disturbance that changed the earth for ever .
now, how could we possibly date anything older than the flood due to the theory that if all this took place in 150 days(ch 8 v 3 ) then the earth didn`t change slowly over millions of years but it happened very quick but could leave the appearance of long periods of time.
now considering scientists have come up with some dumb theorys at times iv`e chosen to trust ancient mythology more because it is closer to there time (if you can understand there perspective).

as i said , it was long winded but this is based on christian scientists using the bible fore a foundation.


[This message has been edited by truthseekar (edited June 05, 2001).]
 
Old 06-05-2001, 10:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by truthseekar:
this will be based on the flood of noah(keeping in mind that almost every culture in history has a flood story).</font>
No, actually many cultures do not, and those that do have ones that differ tremendously from the account of Noah. Also, the fading away of the Ice Age 10,000 or so years ago would cause a rise in sea levels and precipitation worldwide, which most likely instigated many of the global flood legends.
[qoute]NOW: let`s look at how the earth could have been according to the bible before the flood.
I will show how I believe the flood was much more than just a flood, from the bible, and caused the death of the dinosours and throws dating out the window.[/quote]
Would you also care to expain how the flood happened in outer space, since dating of material from there provides even more evidence for the accuracy of radiometric dating?
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">(all scriptures I will use are in genesis)

1.get a globe of the planet ,notice it spins off its axis, now spin it until all you see is ocean, then spin it around until all you see is land split by ocean. notice 2 things , 1. isreal is in the middle off the whole world.</font>
No, it is not - there is no "middle of the world", and Israel is far above the equator, anyway.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2. notice how the earth could fit together like a jiggsaw into one land mass which would shrink the earth to almost a third the size it is ( I`m shore we`ve all heared scientific theorys for this happening over millions of years).</font>
No, it would still be the same size, just joined together.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2: ch 1 v 7; and god formed man from the dust of the ground,AND BREATH INTO HIS NOSTRELS THE BREATH OF LIFE,and man became a living soul. also ch 7 v 22. point; our life is in our breath , so if those before the flood lived almost a thousand years and after the flood mans life dropped below 120 (conferms many theorys about the fall of man). This suggests a mass change in atmospheric and earthly environment.</font>
No, aging is contolled by the petuatary gland, not by the environment (at least nowhere near to such an extreme degree as you think happened).
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">so lets spekulate a bit with this. If the gravity and density of the oxygen changed wouldn`t that make it harder to breath and therfore restrict not only our breathing but our ability to move over the earth freely (ie . needing car`s or horses)and therfore reduce our lifespan drasticlly.</font>
No, not to the degree you think would happen, and there is no evidence that the Earth's gravity has drastically changed, anyway.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3:I`t had never rained before the flood , after the flood was an appearance of a rainbow for the first time ever and it was more than just rain for the first time , this nearly destroyed the hole earth.(I will show how) read:ch 2 v 5&6 god hadn`t caused it to rain & the mist watered the ground. ch 9 v 11 neither shall there anymore be a flood to DESTROY THE EARTH. ch 9 v 13 i do set my bow in the cloud(for the first time).</font>
Really? How then did the vast majority of land animals even stay alive, with no large amount of plants to eat because of the almost complete lack of them that would happen in a rainless environment (desserts are what is produced by such)?
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">4:ch 1 v 6&7 I believe the firmiment was made out of water and orbited the earth before the flood , giving the earth an atmesphere that dropped alot of dew but didn`t rain.</font>
Sorry, the laws of physics dictate such a thing would indeed be 'rain'.

Oh and BTW a vapor canopy surrounding the Earth would shut off most all sunlight from it while also increasing the surface temperature to at least 500 degrees farenheit via the greenhouse effect.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">5:ch 7 v 11 & ch 8 v 2 causes me to believe there were extreame amounts of water under the earth. called fountains of the deep(as ther still are ).</font>
Sorry, but no, there are such great "Fountains of the deep". The ones that exist come mostly just from rain water, but there is no evidence that vast, great ones ever existed.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">6:ch 6 v 4 first, i don`t want to address the issue of the sons of god and daughters of men to much in this (althou it is majorlly relevant)exept for 2 things , first , notice how the giants (naphilim) are not linked to the offspring of SOG & DOM. these are diffrent creatures again to the offspring (called mighty men not giants).I believe these gaints (naphilim) were dinosours.</font>
Ok, now I know you have lost it.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">so now lets take a brief look at the world before the flood and i`ll show you my theory of why scientists dating is imposible.

1:the world was a third the size it is now ,sptit by rivers(not oceans).</font>
No, it was of equal size, but merely had the continents rearranged, and such a thing bears no relevance to isatopic dating techniques.
[quote[2:life is in our breath and that would adjust our life span due to change in atmosphere.(from 1000 to 120)[/quote]
Debunked this already.
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3:It had never rained before it only dropped dew shows diffrent atmosphere.

4: water made up the firmiment in the upper atmosphere.

5:under the earth was water , the fountains of the deep.</font>
See above.

[quote[6:the gaints (nephilim) are dinosours .[/quote]
Please do not stop taking your medication.

Will somebody come in and debunk the rest of this guy's crap? I am not in the mood to do so.
 
Old 06-06-2001, 03:47 AM   #5
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CUTE LITTLE BABY:

As I stated several times before, I will cover allot of questions with Christian scientific theories using the bible as the foundation to this theory and speculation from mythology.
Note: theory, bible, speculation and mythology.

As you stated: No, actually many cultures do not. No, it is not .No, it would still be the same size, just joined together, No, the petuatary gland controls aging, not by the environment (at least nowhere near to such an extreme degree as you think happened)(your not to shore hear). No, not to the degree you think would happen, there is no evidence (I didnít say there was), Sorry, but no, Ok, No, it was of equal size, now I know you have lost it.

Since I am only speculating a theory due to biblical mythology and never once spoke as thou I was there and I know, I would like to now how you then figure you can even discuses this with me as it is obvious that you didnít notice thatís what I was basing my theory on (genesis) and you probably read my article without even reading the account in the bible.
My quote:
-------------------------------------------
This will be based on the flood of Noah (keeping in mind that almost every culture in history has a flood story).
--------------------------------------

Your quote:
-----------------------------------------------
No, actually many cultures do not,

-------------------------------------------------
I have an account of every one of these flood stories so if your wrong on this point when you speak as thou you were there, how can I believe any of your claims since you speak with such unfounded authority. (were you there?)
Europe
Greek
Arcadian
Samothrace
Roman
Scandinavian
Celtic
Welsh
Lithuanian
German
Turkey
Transylvanian Gypsy
Vogul
Near East
Middle Eastern Generally
Egypt
Persian
Assyrian
Sumerian
Hebrew
Islamic
Babylonian
Chaldean
Zoroastrian
Africa
Pygmy
Kikuyu (Kenya)
Southwest Tanzania
Yoruba (southwest Nigeria)
Basonge
Ekoi (Nigeria)
Efik-Ibibio (Nigeria)
Mandingo (Ivory Coast)
Bakongo (west Zaire)
Bachokwe? (southern Zaire)
Bena-Lulua (Congo River, southeast Zaire):
Lower Congo
Komililo Nandi
Cameroon
Kwaya (Lake Victoria)
Far East
Hindu
Bhil (central India)
Kamar (Raipur District, Central India)
Munda (north-central India)
Santal (Bengal)
Ho (southwestern Bengal)
Lepcha (Sikkim)
Tibet
Singpho (Assam)
Lushai (Assam)
Assam
Mongolia
Altaic (central Asia)
Tuvinian (Soyot) (north of Mongolia)
Yenisey-Ostyak (north central Siberia)
Russian
Buryat (eastern Siberia)
Sagaiye (eastern Siberia)
Samoyed (north Siberia)
Kamchadale (northeast Siberia)
Tsuwo (Formosa interior)
Bunun (Formosa interior)
China
Bahnar (Cochin China)
Zhuang (China)
Lisu (northwest Yunnan, China)
Lolo (southwestern China)
Siu (southern Guizhou, China)
Jino (southern Yunnan, China)
Korea
Andaman Islands (Bay of Bengal)
Shan (Burma)
Karen (Burma)
Chingpaw (Upper Burma)
Kammu (northern Thailand)
Benua-Jakun (Malay Peninsula)
Kelantan (Malay Peninsula)
Ami (eastern Taiwan)
Ifugao (Philippines)
Kiangan Ifugao
AtŠ (Philippines)
Mandaya (Philippines)
Tinguian (Luzon, Philippines)
Batak (Sumatra)
Nias (an island west of Sumatra)
Engano (another island west of Sumatra)
Dusun (British North Borneo)
Dyak (Borneo)
Ot-Danom (Dutch Borneo)
Toradja (central Celebes)
Alfoor (between Celebes and New Guinea)
Rotti (southwest of Timor)
Nage (Flores)
Australasia and Pacific Islands
Kabadi (New Guinea)
Valman (northern New Guinea)
Mamberao River (Irian Jaya)
Samo-Kubo (western Papua New Guinea)
Papua New Guinea
Australian
Mount Elliot (coastal Queensland)
Arnhem Land (northern Northern Territory)
Gumaidj (Arnhem Land)
Maung (Goulburn Islands, Arnhem Land)
Gunwinggu (northern Arnhem Land)
Manger (Arnhem Land)
Western Australia
Andingari (South Australia)
Wiranggu (South Australia)
Narrinyeri (South Australia)
Victoria
Lake Tyres (Victoria)
Kurnai (Gippsland, Victoria)
southeast Australian
Maori (New Zealand)
Palau Islands (Micronesia)
western Carolines
New Hebrides
Lifou (one of the Loyalty Islands)
Fiji
Samoa
Nanumanga (Hudson's Island, South Pacific)
Mangaia (Cook Islands)
Rakaanga (Cook Islands)
Raiatea (Leeward Group, French Polynesia)
Tahiti
Hawaii
North and Central America
Netsilik Eskimo
Norton Sound Eskimo
Innuit
Tlingit (southern Alaska coast)
Hareskin (Alaska)
Tinneh (Alaska)
Haida (Queen Charlotte Is., British Columbia)
Kaska (northern inland British Columbia)
Squamish (British Columbia)
Tsimshian (British Columbia)
Skagit (Washington)
Skokomish (Washington)
Klallam (northwest Washington)
Makah (Cape Flattery, Washington)
Quillayute (Washington)
Nisqually (Washington)
Kathlamet?
Warm Springs (Oregon)
Joshua (southern Oregon)
Shasta (northern California interior)
Yurok (north California coast)
Northern California Coast
Wintu (north central California)
Pomo (north central California)
Northern Miwok (central California)
Tuleyome Miwok (near Clear Lake, California)
Olamentko Miwok (Bodega Bay, California)
Salinan (California)
LuiseŮo (Southern California)
Kootenay (southeast British Columbia)
Yakima (Washington)
Spokana, Nez Perce, Cayuse (eastern Washington)
Blackfoot (Alberta and Montana)
Micmac (eastern Maritime Canada)
Greenlander
Montagnais (northern Gulf of St. Lawrence)
Algonquin (upper Ottowa River)
Chippewa (Ontario, Minnesota, Wisconsin)
Menomini (Wisconsin-Michigan border)
Cheyenne (Minnesota)
Cherokee (Great Lakes area; eastern Tennessee)
Lenape (New York)
Mandan (North Dakota)
Lakota
Caddo (Oklahoma, Arkansas)
Tsetsaut
Choctaw (Mississippi)
Natchez (Lower Mississippi)
Chitimacha (Southern Louisiana)
Navajo (Four Corners area)
Yuma (western Arizona, southern California)
Havasupai (lower Colorado River)
Pima (southwest Arizona)
Papago (Arizona)
Sia (northeast Arizona)
Hopi (northeast Arizona)
Jicarilla Apache (northeastern New Mexico)
Yaqui (Sonoran, Northern Mexico)
Tarahumara (Northern Mexico)
Huichol (western Mexico)
Cora (east of the Huichols)
Tepecano (southeast of the Huichols)
Tepehua (eastern Mexico)
Totonac (eastern Mexico)
Nahua (central Mexico)
Toltec (Mexico)
Tlaxcalan (central Mexico)
Tarascan (northern Michoacan, Mexico)
Michoacan (Mexico)
Tlapanec (south central Mexico)
Popoluca (Veracruz, Mexico)
Mixtec (northern Oaxaca, Mexico)
Zapotec (Oaxaca, southern Mexico)
Trique (Oaxaca, southern Mexico)
Chol (southern Mexico)
Tzeltal (Chiapas, southern Mexico)
Maya (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
Quichť (Guatemala)
Nicaragua
Panama
South America
Muysca (Colombia)
Tamanaque (Orinoco)
Acawai (Orinoco)
Makiritare (Venezuela)
YanomamŲ (southern Venezuela)
Yaruro (southern Venezuela)
Arekuna (Guyana)
Arawak (Guyana)
Pamary, Abedery, and Kataushy (eastern Peru)
Ipurina (Upper Amazon)
Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region)
Coroado (south Brazil)
Jivaro (eastern Ecuador)
Shuar (Andes)
Araucania (coastal Chile)
Canelos Quechua
Quechua
Inca (Peru)
Colla (high Andes)
Chiriguano (southeast Bolivia)
Chorote (Eastern Paraguay)
Toba (northern Argentina)
Selk'nam (southern tip of Argentina)
Yamana (Tierra del Fuego)

Is that enough for you.

You address me with such authority as thou you were there, so you have the whole truth .I donít know whom you thought you were talking to, but to me your arrogance has exposed your ignorance. (Why didnít you just share your theory) your authority is totally flawed. You must be young, please donít be presumptuous with me again. You are far from the truth.

I say again: as scientist work allot with theory based from certain facts I will cover allot of questions with Christian scientific theories using the bible as the foundation to this theory and speculation from mythology.

So at least read the bible or you are the one that has lost it. (The point, that is).

POINT:theory based on genesis.(note:based on)

????why do you need to tear down instead of contribute.?????have you allways been negotive.

nice to make new friends,nice to meet you????


[This message has been edited by truthseekar (edited June 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by truthseekar (edited June 06, 2001).]
 
Old 06-06-2001, 05:58 AM   #6
Lance
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Question

Truthseeker: Sounds to me like a list...however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Kindly provide links to each. If nothing else, I'd be curious to look at them.
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Old 06-06-2001, 06:42 AM   #7
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great list, truthseeker. Unfortunately, (1) they all have different flood stories, (2) floods are common all over the world (3) the flood in the bible is impossible as history (4) the biblical flood story is borrowed from earlier near eastern flood stories (5) the list you have represents less than 1% of all world cultures. Have you surveyed them all?


Michael
 
Old 06-06-2001, 07:14 AM   #8
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turtonm
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
great list, truthseeker. Unfortunately, (1) they all have different flood stories, (2) floods are common all over the world (3) the flood in the bible is impossible as history (4) the biblical flood story is borrowed from earlier near eastern flood stories (5) the list you have represents less than 1% of all world cultures. Have you surveyed them all?
---------------------------------------------

turtonm ,

1. i no this.
2. i see that to
3. why? , what makes you say that?
4.i no this to(babylonians probably)
5.I haven`t survayed them all, but it seems like alot more than 1%.
can you tell me how you come to that percentage.


Lance
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Truthseeker: Sounds to me like a list...however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Kindly provide links to each. If nothing else, I'd be curious to look at them
---------------------------------------------

lance, I can`t find the web site for the life of me , I have it on file but it is very long so I`ll put some of it on and if you want the whole page I`ll e-mail it to you.

Flood Stories from around the World
Copyright © 2000 by Mark Isaak
Originally formatted for the web by Philip Burns
[Last Revision: June 5, 2001]

Introduction
The stories below are flood stories from the world's folklore. I have included stories here if (1) they are stories; (2) they are folklore, not historical accounts or fiction by a known author; and (3) they involve a flood. In most borderline cases, I included the story here anyway. For example, one story (Hopi) tells of a flood which was avoided and never occurred.

My method for collecting these stories is simply to collect every flood story I find. I have omitted a few extremely fragmentary accounts, such as sources that say "These people have a legend of a flood in which most people were killed" and little or nothing more. The stories are summarized both to save space and to avoid copyright infringements, but I have attempted to preserve all the motifs and all the names that were given in the cited account. However, where the story gives intricate account of events before and/or after the flood (such as in the Zhuang story of Bubo vs. the Thunder God), some of the details peripheral to the flood itself may have been summarized out of existence.

Europe

Greek:
Zeus sent a flood to destroy the men of the Bronze Age. Prometheus advised his son Deucalion to build a chest. All other men perished except for a few who escaped to high mountains. The mountains in Thessaly were parted, and all the world beyond the Isthmus and Peloponnese was overwhelmed. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha (daughter of Epimetheus and Pandora), after floating in the chest for nine days and nights, landed on Parnassus. When the rains ceased, he sacrificed to Zeus, the God of Escape. At the bidding of Zeus, he threw stones over his head; they became men, and the stones which Pyrrha threw became women. That is why people are called laoi, from laas, "a stone." [Apollodorus 1.7.2]
The first race of people was completely destroyed because they were exceedingly wicked. The fountains of the deep opened, the rain fell in torrents, and the rivers and seas rose to cover the earth, killing all of them. Deucalion survived due to his prudence and piety and linked the first and second race of men. Onto a great ark he loaded his wives and children and all animals. The animals came to him, and by God's help, remained friendly for the duration of the flood. The flood waters escaped down a chasm opened in Hierapolis. [Frazer, pp. 153-154]

An older version of the story told by Hellanicus has Deucalion's ark landing on Mount Othrys in Thessaly. Another account has him landing on a peak, probably Phouka, in Argolis, later called Nemea. [Gaster, p. 85]

The Megarians told that Megarus, son of Zeus, escaped Deucalion's flood by swimming to the top of Mount Gerania, guided by the cries of cranes. [Gaster, p. 85-86]

An earlier flood was reported to have occurred in the time of Ogyges, founder and king of Thebes. The flood covered the whole world and was so devastating that the country remained without kings until the reign of Cecrops. [Gaster, p. 87]

Nannacus, king of Phrygia, lived before the time of Deucalion and foresaw that he and all people would perish in a coming flood. He and the Phrygians lamented bitterly, hence the old proverb about "weeping like (or for) Nannacus." After the deluge had destroyed all humanity, Zeus commanded Prometheus and Athena to fashion mud images, and Zeus summoned winds to breathe life into them. The place where they were made is called Iconium after these images. [Frazer, p. 155]

"Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years" since Athens and Atlantis were preeminent. Destruction by fire and other catastrophes was also common. In these floods, water rose from below, destroying city dwellers but not mountain people. The floods, especially the third great flood before Deucalion, washed away most of Athens' fertile soil. [Plato, "Timaeus" 22, "Critias" 111-112]


Arcadian:
Dardanus, first king of Arcadia, was driven from his land by a great flood which submerged the lowlands, rendering them unfit for cultivation. The people retreated to the mountains, but they soon decided that the land left was not enough to support them all. Some stayed with Dimas, son of Dardanus, as their king; Dardanus led the rest to the island of Samothrace. [Frazer, p. 163]

Samothrace:
The sea rose when the barriers dividing the Black Sea from the Mediterranean burst, releasing waters from the Black Sea in a great torrent that washed over part of the coast of Asia and the lowlands of Samothrace. The survivors on Samothrace retreated to the mountains and prayed for deliverance. On being saved, they set up monuments to the event and built alters on which to continue sacrifices through the ages. Fishermen still occasionally draw up parts of stone columns in their nets, signs of cities drowned in the sea. [Frazer, pp. 167-168]

Roman:
Jupiter, angered at the evil ways of humanity, resolved to destroy it. He was about to set the earth to burning, but considered that that might set heaven itself afire, so he decided to flood the earth instead. With Neptune's help, he caused storm and earthquake to flood everything but the summit of Parnassus, where Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha came by boat and found refuge. Recognizing their piety, Jupiter let them live and withdrew the flood. Deucalion and Pyrrha, at the advice of an oracle, repopulated the world by throwing "your mother's bones" (stones) behind them; each stone became a person. [Ovid, book 1]
Jupiter and Mercury, traveling incognito in Phrygia, begged for food and shelter, but found all doors closed to them until they received hospitality from Philemon and Baucis. The gods revealed their identity, led the couple up the mountains, and showed them the whole valley flooded, destroying all homes but the couple's, which was transformed into a marble temple. Given a wish, the couple asked to be priest and priestess of the temple, and to die together. In their extreme old age, they changed into an oak and lime tree. [Ovid, book 8]


Scandinavian:
Oden, Vili, and Ve fought and slew the great ice giant Ymir, and icy water from his wounds drowned most of the Rime Giants. The giant Bergelmir escaped, with his wife and children, on a boat made from a hollowed tree trunk. From them rose the race of frost ogres. Ymir's body became the world we live on. His blood became the oceans. [Sturluson, p. 35]

Celtic:
Heaven and Earth were great giants, and Heaven lay upon the Earth so that their children were crowded between them, and the children and their mother were unhappy in the darkness. The boldest of the sons led his brothers in cutting up Heaven into many pieces. From his skull they made the firmament. His spilling blood caused a great flood which killed all humans except a single pair, who were saved in a ship made by a beneficent Titan. The waters settled in hollows to become the oceans. The son who led in the mutilation of Heaven was a Titan and became their king, but the Titans and gods hated each other, and the king titan was driven from his throne by his son, who was born a god. That Titan at last went to the land of the departed. The Titan who built the ship, whom some consider to be the same as the king Titan, went there also. [Sproul, pp. 172-173]

Welsh:
The lake of Llion burst, flooding all lands. Dwyfan and Dwyfach escaped in a mastless ship with pairs of every sort of living creature. They landed in Prydain (Britain) and repopulated the world. [Gaster, pp. 92-93]

Lithuanian:
From his heavenly window, the supreme god Pramzimas saw nothing but war and injustice among mankind. He sent two giants, Wandu and Wejas (water and wind), to destroy earth. After twenty days and nights, little was left. Pramzimas looked to see the progress. He happened to be eating nuts at the time, and he threw down the shells. One happened to land on the peak of the tallest mountain, where some people and animals had sought refuge. Everybody climbed in and survived the flood floating in the nutshell. God's wrath abated, he ordered the wind and water to abate. The people dispersed, except for one elderly couple who stayed where they landed. To comfort them, God sent the rainbow and advised them to jump over the bones of the earth nine times. They did so, and up sprang nine other couples, from which the nine Lithuanian tribes descended. [Gaster, p. 93]

German:
A louse and a flea were brewing beer in an eggshell. The louse fell in and burnt herself. This made the flea weep, which made the door creak, which made the broom sweep, which made the cart run, which made the ash-heap burn, which made the tree shake itself, which made the girl break her water-pitcher, which made the spring begin to flow. And in the spring's water everything was drowned. [Grimm 30]

Turkey:
Iskender-Iulcarni (Alexander the Great), in the course of his conquests, demanded tribute from Katife, Queen of Smyrna. She refused insultingly and threatened to drown the king if he persisted. Enraged at her insolence, the conqueror determined to punish the queen by drowning her in a great flood. He employed Moslem and infidel workmen to make a strait of the Bosphorus, paying the infidel workmen one-fifth as much as the Moslems got. When the canal was nearly completed, he reversed the pay arrangements, giving the Moslems only one-fifth as much as the infidels. The Moslems quit in disgust and left the infidels to finish the canal. The Black Sea swept away the last dike and drowned the workmen. The flood spread over Queen Katife's country (drowning her) and several cities in Africa. The whole world would have been engulfed, but Iskender-Iulcarni was prevailed upon to open the Strait of Gibraltar, letting the Mediterranean escape into the ocean. Evidence of the flood can still be seen in the form of drowned cities on the coast of Africa and ship moorings high above the coast of the Black Sea. [Gaster, pp. 91-92]

Transylvanian Gypsy:
Men once lived forever and knew no troubles. The earth brought forth fine fruits, flesh grew on trees, and milk and wine flowed in many rivers. One day, and old man came to the country and asked for a night's lodging, which a couple gave him in their cottage. When he departed the next day, he said he would return in nine days. He gave his host a small fish in a vessel and said he would reward the host if he did not eat the fish but returned it then. The wife thought the fish must be exceptionally good to eat, but the husband said he had promised the old man to keep it and made the woman swear not to eat it. After two days of thinking about it, though, the wife yielded to temptation and threw the fish on the hot coals. Immediately, she was struck dead by lightning, and it began to rain. The rivers started overflowing the country. On the ninth day, the old man returned and told his host that all living things would be drowned, but since he had kept his oath, he would be saved. The old man told the host to take a wife, gather his kinsfolk, and build a boat on which to save them, animals, and seeds of trees and herbs. The man did all this. It rained a year, and the waters covered everything. After a year, the waters sank, and the people and animals disembarked. They now had to labor to gain a living, and sickness and death came also. They multiplied slowly so that many thousands of years passed before people were again as numerous as they were before the flood. [Frazer, pp. 177-178]

Vogul:
After seven years of drought, the Great Woman said to the Great Man that rains had come elsewhere; how should they save themselves. The Great Man counseled the other giants to make boats from cut poplars, anchor them with ropes of willow roots 500 fathoms long, and provide them with seven days of food and with pots of melted butter to grease the ropes. Those who did not make all the preparations perished when the waters came. After seven days, the waters sank. But all plants and animals had perished, even the fish. The survivors, on the brink of starvation, prayed to the great god Numi-t‚rom, who recreated living things. [Gaster, pp. 93-94]
Near East

Middle Eastern generally:
In this region, it is common to believe that the earth was originally covered with water, and that there is now a layer of water beneath the earth. Hebrews also have a layer of water above the earth.

Egypt:
People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris. [Faulkner, plate 30] (Unfortunately the version of the papyrus with the flood story is damaged and unclear. See also Budge, p. ccii.)

Persian:
In early times, the earth was full of malign creatures fashioned by the evil Ahriman. The angel Tistar (the star Sirius) descended three times, in the form of man, horse, and bull respectively, causing ten days and nights of rain each time. Each rain drop became as big as a bowl, and the water rose the height of a man over the whole earth. The first flood drowned the creatures, but the dead noxious creatures went into holes in the earth. Before returning to cause the second flood, Tistar, in the form of a white horse, battled the demon Apaosha, who took the form of a black horse. Ormuzd blasted the demon with lightning, making the demon give a cry which can still be heard in thunderstorms, and Tistar prevailed and caused rivers to flow. The poison washed from the land by the second flood made the seas salty. The waters were driven to the ends of the earth by a great wind and became the sea Vourukasha ("Wide-Gulfed"). [Carnoy, p. 270; Vitaliano, pp. 161-162; H. Miller, p. 288]

Assyrian:
The gods, led by Enlil, agreed to cleanse the earth of an overpopulated humanity, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god Ea in a dream. He and some craftsmen built a large boat (one acre in area, seven decks) in a week. He then loaded it with his family, the craftsmen, and "the seed of all living creatures." The waters of the abyss rose up, and it stormed for six days. Even the gods were frightened by the flood's fury. Upon seeing all the people killed, the gods repented and wept. The waters covered everything but the top of the mountain Nisur, where the boat landed. Seven days later, Utnapishtim released a dove, but it returned finding nowhere else to land. He next returned a sparrow, which also returned, and then a raven, which did not return. Thus he knew the waters had receded enough for the people to emerge. Utnapishtim made a sacrifice to the gods. He and his wife were given immortality and lived at the end of the earth. [Sandars, chpt. 5]
Sharur destroyed Asag, demon of sickness and disease, by flooding his abode. In the process, "The primeval waters of Kur rose to the surface, and as a result of their violence no fresh waters could reach the fields and gardens." [Kramer, p. 105]


Sumerian:
The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises. [Hammerly-Dupuy, p. 56; Heidel, pp. 102-106]

Hebrew:
God, upset at mankind's wickedness, resolved to destroy it, but Noah was righteous and found favor with Him. God told Noah to build an ark, 450 x 75 x 45 feet, with three decks. Noah did so, and took aboard his family (8 people in all) and pairs of all kinds of animals (7 of the clean ones). For 40 days and nights, floodwaters came from the heavens and from the deeps, until the highest mountains were covered. The waters flooded the earth for 150 days; then God sent a wind and the waters receded, and the ark came to rest in Ararat. After 40 days, Noah sent out a raven, which kept flying until the waters had dried up. He next sent out a dove, which returned without finding a perch. A week later he set out the dove again, and it returned with an olive leaf. The next week, the dove didn't return. After a year and 10 days from the start of the flood, everyone and everything emerged from the ark. Noah sacrificed some clean animals and birds to God, and God, pleased with this, promised never again to destroy all living creatures with a flood, giving the rainbow as a sign of this covenant. Animals became wild and became suitable food, and Noah and his family were told to repopulate the earth. Noah planted a vineyard and one day got drunk. His son Ham saw him lying naked in his tent and told his brothers Shem and Japheth, who came and covered Noah with their faces turned. When Noah awoke, he cursed Ham and his descendants and blessed his other sons. [Genesis 6-9]
Men lived at ease before the flood; a single harvest provided for forty years, children were born after only a few days instead of nine months and could walk and talk immediately, and people could command the sun and moon. This indolence led men astray, especially to the sins of wantonness and rapacity. God determined to destroy the sinners, but in mercy he instructed Noah to warn them of the threat of a flood and to preach to them to mend their ways. Noah did this for 120 years. God gave mankind a final week of grace during which the sun reversed course, but the wicked men did not repent; they only mocked Noah for building the ark. Noah learned how to make the ark from a book, given to Adam by the angel Raziel, which contained all knowledge. This book was made of sapphires, and Noah put it in a golden casket and, during the flood, used it to tell day from night, for the sun and moon did not shine at that time. The flood was caused by male waters from the sky meeting the female waters from the ground. God made holes in the sky for the waters to issue from by removing two stars from the Pleiades. He later closed the hole by borrowing two stars from the Bear. That is why the Bear always runs after the Pleiades. The animals came to the ark in such numbers that Noah could not take them all; he had them sit by the door of the ark, and he took in the animals which lay down at the door. 365 species of reptiles and 32 species of bird were taken. Since seven pairs of each kind of clean animal were taken, the clean animals outnumbered the unclean after the flood. One creatures, the reem was so big it had to be tethered outside the ark and follow behind. The giant Og, king of Bashan, was also too big and escaped the flood sitting atop the ark. In addition to Noah, his wife Naamah, and their sons and sons' wives, Falsehood and Misfortune also took refuge on the ark. Falsehood was initially turned away when he presented himself without a mate, so he induced Misfortune to join him and returned. When the flood began, the sinners gathered around it and rushed the door, but the wild beasts aboard the ark guarded the door and set upon them. Those which escaped the beasts drowned in the flood. The ark, and the animals in it, were tossed around on the waters for a year, but Noah's greatest difficulty was feeding all the animals, for he had to work day and night to feed both the diurnal and nocturnal animals. When Noah once tarried in feeding the lion, the lion gave him a blow which made him lame for the rest of his life and prevented him from serving as a priest. On the tenth day of the month of Tammuz, Noah sent forth a raven, but the raven found a corpse to devour and did not return. A week later Noah sent out a dove, and on its third flight it returned with an olive leaf plucked from the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, for the Holy Land had not suffered from the flood. Noah wept at the devastation when he left the ark, and Shem offered a thank-offering; Noah could not officiate due to his encounter with the lion. [Frazer, pp. 143-145; from Ginzberg, pp. 151-167]

Aprocryphal scripture tells that Adam directed that his body, together with gold, incense, and myrrh, should be taken aboard the Ark and, after the flood, should be laid in the middle of the earth. God would come from thence and save mankind. [Platt, p. 66, 80 (2 Adam 8:9-18, 21:7-11)]

A woman "clothed with the sun" gave birth to a man child who was taken up by God. The woman then lived in the wilderness, where the Devil-dragon, cast down to earth, persecuted her. At one time he cast a flood of water from his mouth trying to wash her away, but the earth helped the woman and swallowed the flood. [Revelation 12]


Islamic:
Allah sent Noah to warn the people to serve none but Allah, but most of them would not listen. They challenged Noah to make good his threats and mocked him when, under Allah's inspiration, he built a ship. Allah told Noah not to speak to Him on behalf of wrongdoers; they would be drowned. In time, water gushed from underground and fell from the sky. Noah loaded onto his ship pairs of all kinds, his household, and those few who believed. One of Noah's sons didn't believe and said he would seek safety in the mountains. He was among the drowned. The ship sailed amid great waves. Allah commanded the earth to swallow the water and the sky to clear, and the ship came to rest on Al-Judi. Noah complained to Allah for taking his son. Allah admonished that the son was an evildoer and not of Noah's household, and Noah prayed for forgiveness. Allah told Noah to go with blessings on him and on some nations that will arise from those with him. [Koran 11:25-48]

Babylonian:
Three times (every 1200 years), the gods were distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the god Enki advised men to bribe the god causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and Atrahasis' family. When the storm came, Atrahasis sealed the door with bitumen and cut the boat's rope. The storm god Adad raged, turning the day black. After the seven-day flood, the gods regretted their action. Atrahasis made an offering to them, at which the gods gathered like flies, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future. [Dalley, pp. 23-35]

Chaldean:
The god Chronos in a vision warned Xisuthrus, the tenth king of Babylon, of a flood coming on the fifteenth day of the month of Daesius. The god ordered him to write a history and bury it in Sippara, and told him to build and provision a vessel (5 stadia by 2 stadia) for himself, his friends and relations, and all kinds of animals. Xisuthrus asked where he should sail, and Chronos answerd, "to the gods, but first pray for all good things to men." Xisuthrus built a ship five furlongs by two furlongs and loaded it as ordered. After the flood had come and abated somewhat, he sent out some birds, which returned. Later, he tried again, and the birds returned with mud on their feet. On the third trial, the birds didn't return. He saw that land had appeared above the waters, so he parted some seams of his ship, saw the shore, and drove his ship aground in the Corcyraean mountains in Armenia. He disembarked with his wife, daughter, and pilot, and offered sacrifices to the gods. Those four were translated to live with the gods. The others at first were grieved when they could not find the four, but they heard Xisuthrus' voice in the air telling them to be pious and to seek his writings at Sippara. Part of the ship remains to this day, and some people make charms from its bitumen. [Frazer, pp. 108-110; G. Smith, pp. 42-43]
According to accounts attributed to Berosus, the antediluvians were giants who became impious and depraved, except one among them that reverenced the gods and was wise and prudent. His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla. From the stars, he foresaw destruction, and he began building an ark. 78 years after he began building, the oceans, inland seas, and rivers burst forth from beneath, attended by many days of violent rain. The waters overflowed all the mountains, and the human race was drowned except Noa and his family who survived on his ship. The ship came to rest at last on the top of the Gendyae or Mountain. Parts of it still remain, which men take bitumen from to make charms against evil. [H. Miller, pp. 291-292]


Zoroastrian:
Yima, under divine superintendence, reigned over the world for 900 years. As there was no disease or death, the population increase so that it was necessary to enlarge the earth after 300 years; Yima accomplished this with the help of a gold ring and gold-inlaid dagger he had received from Ahura Mazda, the Creator. Enlargement of the earth was necessary again after 600 years. When the population became too great after 900 years, Ahura Mazda warned Yima that destruction was coming in the form of winter, frost, and subsequent to the melting of the snow. He instructed Yima to build a vara, a large square enclosure, in which to keep specimens of small and large cattle, human beings, dogs, birds, red flaming fires, plants and foodstuffs, two of every kind. The men and cattle he brought in were to be the finest on earth. Within the enclosure, men passed the happiest of lives, with each year seeming like a day. [Frazer, pp. 180-182; Dresden, p. 344]

and as you can see from my list given before that there are many more.
 
Old 06-06-2001, 01:12 PM   #9
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Here it is:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html
 
Old 06-06-2001, 04:15 PM   #10
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When Did the Flood Occur? We have unbroken civilizations in both China and Egypt that go back to 3500BCE. The flood was around 2285. SO how come China and Egypt did not get swept away? Becasue it is a myth! Here we go:
I Kings 6:1 says that 480 years passed from the start of the Exodus to the start of construction on the first temple by Solomon. Gal 3:17 says that 430 years passed from the covenant with Abraham to the delivery of the Law to Moses. Yahweh establishes the covenant with Abram about 135 years after he was born (11:32, 26). Abram was born when Terah was 70 (11:26). Terah was born when Nahor was 29 (11:24). Nahor was born when Serug was 30 (11:22). Serug was born when Re'u was 30 (11:20). Re'u was born when Peleg was 30 (11:18). Peleg was born when Eber is 34 (11:16). Eber was born when Shelah was 30 (11:14). Shelah was born from a 35 year-old Arpach'shad (11:12). Arpach'shad was born from Shem 2 years after the flood (11:10).
Since the date of Solomon's reign is agreed to be about 950[+/- 50]BCE, we can calculate the time of the flood using this chronology. Starting with Solomon and working backward, we have:
950BCE +480 +430 +135 +70 +29 +30 +30 +30 +34 +30 +35 +2= 2285BCE.
Even for many creationists, this date is uncomfortably recent. Yet the bible leaves no room for speculation -- the relevant geneaologies are not vague, but assert clearly that two events are seperated by X number of years [for example, Abram was born when Terah was 70, Terah when Nahor was 29, etc.]. The flood cannot be pushed back much further than 2285BCE without abandoning the biblical chronology.

Now boys and girls, where do you stand on the Easter Bunny?
 
 

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