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Old 10-27-2001, 07:39 PM   #1
svensky
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Post Biblical Errancy Lists ?

Can anybody point me to a list of biblical errors, that isn't a complete load of crap ?

I've been challenged by don in a reply to a comment i posted in the feedback forum.

I commented that assertions that the bible is full of contradictions, and long lists of proof texts are nonsense.

So i ask, is there a good one out there.

I'm not interested in one that points out every time a couple of values dont add up across two seperate books (esp powers of 10, given how they where represented), but something that genuinly has something to say. Something that is actaully written by someone who has some understanding of the culture and the times.

I have never bothered to read all of a list that contains the above sort of "contradictions" i get 30 or so items in, roll my eyes and give up, if there where any real problems there, then they are lost in the noise, and the rampant stupidity of most of the errors, does intend to suggest to me that any question that seems to be a bit odd is probably not an error, becasue of the general quality of the "errors and contradictions".

So please anybody a good list, or even just some good examples. I really am curious at this point.

I wont hold my breath however.

Jason
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Old 10-27-2001, 09:24 PM   #2
lpetrich
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Check out http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...y/errancy.html

and in particular,
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...istencies.html
http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...adictions.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...adictions.html

Many of the contradictions discussed are in much more serious issues than numerical values.
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Old 10-27-2001, 09:32 PM   #3
svensky
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Ahh .. but some of them do contain supposed contradictions that are numerically based. I will have another look though.

But i'm much less likely to take arguments in the list if they are mixed in with all of the nonsense arguments. What do you expect.

Jason
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Old 10-27-2001, 11:16 PM   #4
svensky
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Here is an example of what i mean by nonsense examples.

> According to Psalm 19:6, the sun goes all over the heavens
> and nothing can escape its heat. But that is false. Today we know
> that some parts of the universe are totally unaffected by our
> sun.

Now the verse says

> Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

Is it worht pointing out that either the author is a moron, or the author is desperate to find contradictions. The psalms are songs and poetry. They are not meant as a scientific account. This little comment is taken from "The Argument fromThe Bible by Theodore
Drange". There is also a massive list of other "contradictions" in a similar vein. Now he did actually seem to have the odd good point, probably not once i go and check the passages for my self, but at least on the surface, the answer doesn't instally spring to mind. But seriously, if he is going to quote things out of context and try to quote poetry as scientific argument, how seriously am i expected to take this. Not to mention that the author notes that genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory. Now if he knew anything about ANE writing style, he would know that they are in fact complimentary, with one broad outline, and the other some more detail. This was the first article on the page you provided a link too.
So rather than waste my time reading the same thing spelled out 20 different ways, could you point me to the ones that are vaguley credible, written by people with a clue please?

Jason
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Old 10-28-2001, 12:28 AM   #5
Muad'Dib
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Most lists that you will find around here do not claim to contain outright contradictions so much as textual difficulties which, although perhaps resolvable to a believer's satisfaction, might make one wonder about the supposed divine authorship of the Bible--if it is indeed written by God, might he not have made himself clearer in many cases?

Note also that many Christians do not believe that an errant Bible is a problem; for them, such lists are largely irrelevant.

Quote:
Not to mention that the author notes that genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory. Now if he knew anything about ANE writing style, he would know that they are in fact complimentary, with one broad outline, and the other some more detail.
Actually, since the documentary hypothesis is still the prevailing explanation for the origin of the Pentateuch (since better explanations have yet to be provided), the general scholarly consensus is that there are most likely two creation accounts in Genesis 1 & 2. There is a bit of debate on this subject, of course, but it's hardly the case that the literary style itself implies complementary interpretations of a single event.
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Old 10-28-2001, 05:45 AM   #6
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Well Jason, why don't you read Biblical Errancy or The Skeptical Review. After that, you can pick out some of the problems they chose, put up your solutions, and we can discuss them.

The many errors in the Bible are of so glaringly obvious a nature that only a tiny minority of Christians are inerrantists. The vast majority make their peace with the errors of the Bible one way or another, and go right on believing. You'll find on our boards that nobody defends the inerrantist position, because it is so hopeless. If you doubt that, just start an "errors solved!" thread in the Bible Criticism forum.

Good luck in your quest, Jason.

Michael
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Old 10-28-2001, 05:49 AM   #7
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i wouldn't bother with the contradictions; xians have 1,000,001 ways to rationalize them all away.

i'd focus on the things in the bible that are just plain wrong in & of themselves. devnet's got a great site for this, starting with the first sentences of genesis.

you can find it here

two of my personal favorites are numbers 5:11-39 (a sort of litmus test for determining if your wife has been unfaithful) and the latter part of genesis 30 (you have to read this one to believe it...).

-gary
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Old 10-28-2001, 05:58 AM   #8
GunnerJ
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Cool

The best Biblical critisism site I know of is the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. Now, a lot of the contradictions and errors are really spurious and out-of-context, but some are pure gold. Plus, they have other fun categories, like "Sex," "Science," "Cruelty," and "Family Values."

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]
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Old 10-28-2001, 03:25 PM   #9
Ales
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For the concise and even for me comprehensible intruduction to the biblical errancy and contradiction I prefer T.Drange's http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...nge/bible.html

Aleš.
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Old 10-28-2001, 05:51 PM   #10
svensky
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I dont suppose many of you have noticed that i am infact a christian, and am merely interested in learning.

I had a look at the devnet site that was recommended. Alas, i didn't get much furthur than looking at the images, and reading the first few lines, then gave up. Actaully i think i gave up after the first graphic. It might be convincing if your willing to jump on anything as a problem, but please, to treat the first couple of chapters of genesis as a science text is a little bit silly. I think there is truth there but use your brain. This is almost as silly as the page i saw claiming that the bible taught that the world was flat.

I notice the person that mentioned the T.Drange peice missed an earlier comment i made of it. I think i suggested the author was moron or being deliberatly decpetive in misrepresenting part of the text.

As for the skeptics annotated bible, this is my point. You claim some are gold, but many are spurious and out of context. If a lot is spurious and out of context, and this is apparently an exceptable way to find contratdictions and errors, then how can you expect any of it to be taken seriously. I can see the level of scholarship that is required to find these contradictions, and i do belive it is fair to cast suspicion on them all simply becasue the author is willing to include nonsense.

As i asked at the start, is there a good short concise list of problems, not an enromous collection of moronic or intentionally deceptive nonsense.

I will have a look at the skeptics review, but i'm not going to hold my breath. the first of these problem collections i see that is credible will be the first.

Jason
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