stephan huller

Don't know about Sputnik

MrMacSon

probably the Gospel of Marcion
add: was the "Gospel of Marcion" also the Euangelion, or the 'Gospel of the Lord'??

MrMacSon

or maybe the Apostolicon ( ten epistles of Paul, not including the pastorals)??

Toto

Price refers to the Apostolicon as the Marcionite Sputnik, because it had the same effect on the proto-catholic church as the Russian Sputnik did on the US - it spurred them into action to produce their own canon of Christian, non-Jewish scripture.

MrMacSon

Cheers.

andrewcriddle

FWIW much fruit in John 15:5 is KARPON POLUN not POLUN KARPON

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller

But is Deuteronomy 32:4 "his perfect work" or "his ways are perfect"? I've seen both translation with the former more correct. When you see the way Jews and Samaritans substitute the Aramaic 'image' for the Hebrew 'rock' in the same passage, does word order really determine meaning? Polycarp is attested as a slave's name but it also seems to be a major theological interest of Irenaeus (now filtered as 'scripture'). I think one of Polycarp's miracles in the Acts of Pionius was also to make a drought stricken field fruitful again. I don't know that you can discount the association with Polycarp's name and John 15:5 by word order alone. The fact that Irenaeus apparently didn't use the name 'Polycarp' with Florinus makes me think it was a made up name to disguise something else.

FWIW Peregrinus is said by Lucian to keep changing his name too. They were martyrs roughly at the same time, by fire and with reports of a bird flying out of the fire and associated with the post-humously created letters of Ignatius.

Peter Kirby

Guess I didn't know the context. My mistake. :redface:

Peter Kirby

Relevant to this (as a counterpoint) is the so-called Western order of the first five books of the New Testament: Matthew, John, Luke, Mark, Acts. This order is attested from p45 in the third century, a relatively early manuscript.

Doesn't really prove anything, though, as usual. :banghead:

Peter Kirby

According to the text of Polycarp, he also collected the letters of Ignatius. This guy was busy.

That Marcion was reacting to an established catholic-leaning canon of texts was a popular view, once. Putting Polycarp's NT before Marcion seems to bring that idea back (if that is the proposed order).

However, given that Irenaeus "sat at the feet of Polycarp" and so gosh darn lurved the four-fold canon, I find it hard to believe that Irenaeus wouldn't try to bring Polycarp to bear on the question if there really was anything at all to say.