Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 09-24-2013, 11:33 PM

On the term Eusebians (= Eusebius and his fellows) http://www.dict.cc/english-german/Eu...omedia%5D.html

stephan huller · 09-24-2013, 11:34 PM

And a wholly fucking book on the subject that you will never read because you are an -----

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/vie...-9780199205554

stephan huller · 09-24-2013, 11:34 PM

More information for you to read and which you never will because you are a ----

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05623b.htm

mountainman · 09-25-2013, 12:34 AM

Eusebius of Caesarea is cited as a source drawn upon by the author of the Clementine literature. From the OP:

Quote:

The original author ..... uses the Praeparatio Evangelica of Eusebius of Caesarea.

This is not the only instance of (this) Eusebius being used (or mentioned) by authors of the pseudepigrapha.

mountainman · 09-25-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

How can the question even be answered sensibly when almost nothing of Arius's writings survive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

Difficult to prove or disprove, as already stated.

Arius apparently had another decade in him after being condemned and having all his writings ordered to be destroyed. Could he have turned to writing pseudepigrapha? Distributed it discretely? Who knows?

He was not the only Arian at the time, and so far the timeframe supposed and the doctrine (a form of Arianism) are the only links to Arius.

I agree that the question is difficult to answer, however there is at least one other link to Arius. That being Arius is the only Arian of that epoch (AFAIK) who, from the sources, is named as the author of (anti-orthodox) books.

The source for this element of data are the letters of Constantine:
(1) immediately after Nicaea, when condemning Porphyry and Arius and
(2) c.333 CE in his nasty letter addressed to Arius.

The claim that none of Arius's writings are preserved under the name of Arius is quite water-tight. However it is still quite possible that some of his writings are actually preserved, and are indeed before us under the name of a pseudonym [the connection not yet made], in this specific case, "Clement".

Considering the support that Arius had at that time (and afterwards down the centuries), and the fact that the Arians are known to have preserved at least some of the non canonical literature (such preservation essentially "illegal" and punishable by death), this possibility (IMO) is both quite reasonable and intriguing.

mountainman · 09-25-2013, 09:13 PM

Early references to the Clementine Literature in Origen as interpolations

Quote:

It was long believed that the early date of the Clementines was proved by the fact that they were twice quoted by Origen. One of these quotations occurs in the Philokalia of Sts. Gregory of Nazianzus and Basil (c. 360). Dr. Armitage Robinson showed in his edition of that work (1893) that the citation is an addition to the passage of Origen made by the compilers, or possibly by a later editor. The other citation occurs in the old Latin translation of Origen on Matthew. This translation is full of interpolations and alterations, and the passage of Pseudo-Clement is apparently an interpolation by the translator from the Arian Opus imperfectum in Matt.

mountainman · 09-25-2013, 09:36 PM

The Recognitions of Clement - INTRODUCTION - By the Translator, Rev. Thomas Smith, D.D.

Quote:

The Recognitions of Clement is a kind of philosophical and theological romance. The writer of the work seems to have had no intention of presenting his statements as facts; but, choosing the disciples of Christ and their followers as his principal characters, he has put into their mouths the most important of his beliefs, and woven the whole together by a thread of fictitious narrative.

///

No conclusion has been reached in regard to the author. Some have believed that it is a genuine work of Clement. Whiston maintained that it was written by some of his hearers and companions. Others have attributed the work to Bardesanes. But most acknowledge that there is no possibility of discovering who was the author.

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09-24-2013, 11:33 PM	#11
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	On the term Eusebians (= Eusebius and his fellows) http://www.dict.cc/english-german/Eu...omedia%5D.html

09-24-2013, 11:34 PM	#12
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	And a wholly fucking book on the subject that you will never read because you are an ----- http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/vie...-9780199205554

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