andrewcriddle

Note that most of the TR examples of δαίμων (daimōn) are textually uncertain. The only really solid one is Mat 8:31.

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller

Its an interesting question why the Jews used the diminutive throughout the LXX. In Deuteronomy 32:17 and Psalms 106:37 (105:37), the LXX uses daimonion as a translation of the Hebrew noun shed. It is difficult not to see the connection with the very title of the Hebrew god 'El Shaddai.' The LXX translates Shaddai with words meaning "Almighty.' But is there a relationship between the Jewish God and the demons (or 'little demons')? I think so.

Sheshbazzar

I only posted the Hebrew word being translated as 'daimons' in Deut 32:17 and Psalm 106:37 because spin had already posted the LXX Greek renderings in his Post #23


LXX Deut 32:17
LXX Psalm 106:37
And because spin provided it in Post #23

LXXIsa 13:21

(there are many more LXX verses containing this term)

Now a few verse from the NT Greek.

Mark 1:34 Luke 8:27 There are many more. I hope that this format will help you see the Greek word for demons in the LXX is usually the same Greek word as used in the Greek of the NT. (Note; the Greek renderings sometimes use the terminal ς as a masculine gender indicator but it does not change the basic sense of the word)

Thus you see the word 'daimon' does appear in the LXX Greek texts as well as in the NT Greek texts.
The KJV uses 'devils' as a translation of 'daimons'.

As far as the Latin spelling of 'daimons' varying by a letter, I do not believe that it alters the sense of the term at all, being simply a Latin transliteration of the Greek word.
Any change in the sense of the term arose out of changing religious concepts as ideas were absorbed from other cultures.
A lot of water passed had under the bridge between the composition of the Torah and the time the NT writings were composed.
In the case of 'daemons', Zoroastrian and other religious sources and concepts had been incorporated and syncretized, and had long since came to highly influence and color peoples perpceptions and usages of the term.

These changes in perception and usage of the word would have became common before the NT was written, so the NT writers are not really the ones responsible for instigating that change, they were just going with the flow of the waters.


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Sheshbazzar

So do I. Linguistically the one derives from the other, both signifying a powerful invisable force believed to inhabit men and make them act according to the will of that force or 'entity'.
But in the case of the Hebrew religous usages, they embraced that national shad called YHWH, and internalised it making it their personal fear (hence the terminal yod) indwelling 'terrible' force and fear.
You may be interested on this line, how often Scripture indicates that a Hebrew's association with his 'Shaddai' was based on his fear, With YHWH being the biggest baddest 'Shadd' in the entire universe.
-and the Scriptures are quite clear, this was not a fawning love, or reverence, but an outright fear as their Shaddai in them was perceived as a power to be feared, both by themselves, and any that was foolish enough to oppose that power that was working through them.

Kind of like being inhabited by an alien symbiotic parasite, where the host knows that if he resists its control there will be hell to pay. And that if anyone messes with him, they put themselves in grave danger.
Connects with the idea of untouchable 'holiness'; "HANDS OFF dude! if want to live to see tomorrow."
'TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED'. Couple that with these believers acting boldly in the face of danger to the point of appearing to be quite insane _Puts 'The fear of God' in both the host, and in anyone bold enough to lay hands on them.
Psychological Scare Tactics for a small people living in the midst of a big, and often cruel world.
If you strongly believe that you are dangerous to mess with, then you likely will be dangerous to mess with.
(perhaps because you have made yourself utterly nutso and dangerous via your religious convictions.)

The same psychological power that Jezus is preaching how to apply in Mark 11:23

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mountainman

Hi Shesh,

In the interim Andrew Criddle has pointed out that:

These two distinct terms have different Strong's Numbers (from post #69)




There are many references to the Greek word Strong's G1140 - daimonion - δαιμόνιον.

But the OP is about the Greek word Strong's G1142 - daimōn - δαίμων and there appear to be no references to this in the LXX, and only five in the NT.



It is the word "daimonion" that appears in the LXX cited by spin, and very frequently in the NT, but this word is not the one being considered in the OP. Spin admitted his mistake at post # 74.


Andrew at post # 77 notes that ...
I will try and check these three gospel references containing δαίμων (daimōn) in Vaticanus.

Sorry about the confusion. I found it an interesting excursion.




As I see it at the moment, therefore, post # 75 summarises the OP to date.





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman

Thank you Iskander. To me the difference is quite extreme.

This is indeed an appropriate question to investigate, and I will return to it.

But before this investigation, Andrew has noted above that -
I think we first need to examine something like Vaticanus to see whether we really have each of the three gospels Mark, Matthew and Luke making reference to the term "daimon".

I may have to post links to the Vaticanus images for each reference.

Thanks again for following the argument(s) in the OP.



εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman

Here are links to the three gospel references returned by the Blueletter Bible Greek search for "daimon" in the Codex Vaticanus. If anyone is able to confirm whether the Greek word δαίμων is present in these three references (and if not which Greek word is used), it would be very much appreciated.

Alternatively, since the Vaticanus is written with Greek capital letters, could someone advise what the capitalised version of δαίμων looks like, I could search myself.

Many thanks for any assistance.


(1) Mat 8:31


(2) Mar 5:12


(3) Luk 8:29


As a matter of curiousity this page states:


The question to be asked relevant to the OP of course, is not whether the "demons",
but the "daimons" (i.e. the "guardian spirits of men") , are servant to Christ.








εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia



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Toto

Your own link says that "δαιμόνιον" is "derivative of δαίμων."

mountainman

The OP is about the root δαίμων ("guardian spirit of men") not the derivative.

The meanings of the words are not the same.


From # 69


Strong's G1142 - daimōn - δαίμων - Strong's Number G1142 matches the Greek δαίμων (daimōn), which occurs 5 times in 5 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV - Page 1 / 1 (Mat 8:31 - Rev 18:2)

Strong's G1140 - daimonion - δαιμόνιον - Strong's Number G1140 matches the Greek δαιμόνιον (daimonion), which occurs 60 times in 52 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV - Page 1 / 3 (Mat 7:22 - Luk 8:2)
Also see the different comparitive entries at studybible introduced by Iskander

But for the classical Greek context see daimonion and daimon.




εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Toto

I don't see a significant difference in the meanings. What do you see as the difference?

I suspect that the changes in meaning over time had more to do with changes in attitudes towards spirits, rather than a deliberate redefinition.