Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aupmanyav · 07-22-2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davka

Aslan went on to say that ancient people did not consider *any* of the stories about gods to be factual accounts, but rather stories which were designed to illustrate some important truth.

Agree with that. That is how hindu Gods and Goddesses could be understood (not to say that they are).

Grog · 07-23-2013, 04:36 PM

Is it poss ible that the Jesus stories were similarly understood? There is some basis fo the argument that early christians didnot accept it. I think Doherty's argument concerning Minucius Felix is compelling.

Toto · 07-25-2013, 03:16 PM

Review

Quote:

Did The Second Temple Stink? (A Book Review) by Larry Behrendt

I am predisposed to like Reza Aslan’s latest book Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. Aslan is a talented author, he’s not Christian and he’s writing about Jesus. What’s not to like? Another point in his favor: Aslan strives to understand Jesus in the context of Jewish first century Palestine.

But I ran into problems from the outset of Aslan’s book. In the first paragraph of the book’s introduction, Aslan states that “[t]he itinerant preacher wandering from village to village clamoring about the end of the world, a band of ragged followers trailing behind, was a common sight in Jesus’s time – so common, in fact, that it had become a kind of caricature among the Roman elite.” It would be interesting to learn that the roads in Judea and Galilee were so crowded with itinerant preachers and their ragged followers that even Rome took notice! But what causes Aslan to reach this conclusion? His proof is as follows:

“In a farcical passage about just such [an itinerant preacher], the Greek philosopher Celsus imagines a Jewish holy man roaming the Galilean countryside, shouting to no one in particular: “I am God, or the servant of God, or a divine spirit. But I am coming, for the world is already in the throes of destruction. And you will soon see me coming with the power of heaven.”

Wow. So not only was Jesus one itinerant preacher among many, but evidently all of those other first century itinerant preachers sounded like Jesus! This is amazing stuff, or at least it would be amazing if it were true. But if you read the above quote in context, you’ll discover as I did that Celsus is not “imagining” a single Jewish holy man who preached like Jesus. Instead, Celsus was describing what he thought was typical of the ancient Jewish prophets. It was Celsus’ claim that ancient Jewish prophets “prophesied in the same way as we find them still doing among the inhabitants of Phoenicia and Palestine”. It is these prophets from Celsus’ present day (circa 180 C.E., roughly 150 years after Jesus died) who were “accustomed to say, each for himself, ‘I am God; I am the Son of God; or I am the Divine Spirit’.” Celsus also claimed that these prophets made speeches that included “strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning.” This no longer sounds like Jesus to me.

It gets worse. If you read Celsus (or more exactly, if you read Book VII of Origen’s Contra Celsum, a refutation of Celsus that is the only source we have for Celsus’ work), you’ll find nothing about preachers or prophets “roaming the Galilean countryside”. . . .

hjalti · 07-28-2013, 08:18 AM

Reza Aslan was on Fox "News". Fox was classy as usual.

Toto · 07-28-2013, 05:09 PM

Comments on Fox News, Robert Spenser, etc.

Toto · 07-28-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

Reza Aslan was on Fox "News". Fox was classy as usual.

I watched a longer version that that interview, which Fox titled "Reza Aslan responds to his critics" but which seems to have disappeared. The interviewer (3rd place runner up to Miss America in 1985) keeps digger herself into a deeper hole. She actually quotes William Lane Craig.

Toto · 07-29-2013, 08:39 PM

More political fall out

Is Muslim Academic Reza Aslan More Biased Than a Christian Scholar?

mountainman · 07-29-2013, 09:15 PM

I was interested in the polemic of one of the final questions from the peanut gallery of Biblical Scholars .....

Your book is written with clear bias and you're trying to say its academic.
That's like having a democrat writing a book about "Why Reagan wasn't a good Republican".

I am sure there are modern examples like this that can be applied to the 4th century.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

outhouse · 07-30-2013, 08:37 AM

MSN front page today, states the interview is going viral, due to the idiocy of the interviewer

Toto · 07-30-2013, 11:51 AM

I am Reza Aslan on Reddit

There is a piece on the interviewer here. I didn't realize it from her picture, but she is African American. She is a concert pianist and former model and beauty queen, but most importantly, a committed evangelical Christian.

Quote:

Christian is key there. One former Fox News producer described Green as a “very devout Christian,” with an office full of religious books and who can be overheard listening to religious music on her computer. Every year, according to one Fox staffer, she invites everyone over to her house for a Christmas-carol sing-along.

Green’s recent Fox News career has been something of a study in downward mobility. She began as an arts reporter and then moved on to news reader on Fox & Friends, occasionally filling in as host. She was moved to religion correspondent and is an occasional panelist on the late-night show Red Eye but does not often appear on air. The interview with Aslan, for example, ran online.
...

The relentlessness of her questioning of Aslan led some longtime Fox News watchers to wonder if she wasn’t just following orders from a higher-up.

“I have to believe she was told to answer that question,” said one former colleague. “Somebody—Roger [Ailes], or somebody near to him, had to tell her to press this person on this particular point. I mean, she never presses people very hard. She couldn’t do an adversarial interview if her life depended on it. That is not her style.”

07-29-2013, 09:15 PM	#28
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	I was interested in the polemic of one of the final questions from the peanut gallery of Biblical Scholars ..... Your book is written with clear bias and you're trying to say its academic. That's like having a democrat writing a book about "Why Reagan wasn't a good Republican". I am sure there are modern examples like this that can be applied to the 4th century. εὐδαιμονία \| eudaimonia

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07-23-2013, 04:36 PM	#22
Grog Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 738	Is it poss ible that the Jesus stories were similarly understood? There is some basis fo the argument that early christians didnot accept it. I think Doherty's argument concerning Minucius Felix is compelling.

07-28-2013, 08:18 AM	#24
hjalti Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Iceland Posts: 761	Reza Aslan was on Fox "News". Fox was classy as usual.

07-28-2013, 05:09 PM	#25
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Comments on Fox News, Robert Spenser, etc.

07-29-2013, 08:39 PM	#27
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	More political fall out Is Muslim Academic Reza Aslan More Biased Than a Christian Scholar?

07-30-2013, 08:37 AM	#29
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	MSN front page today, states the interview is going viral, due to the idiocy of the interviewer

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