arnoldo

If someone found parallels between Uncle Tom's Cabin and Tom Sawyer it could be argued that the later books was based upon the former (or a third source). However, it would be more parsimonious (IMHO) to conclude that any parallels were due to the both writers sharing the same common knowledge available at the time both books were written. Frederick C Grant claims similarities between gMark and the Pauline letters results from both writers sharing common knowledge. For those wishing to claim Pauline influence on the gMark he states. . . ,

JoeWallack

JW:
Regarding the possible relationship of "Mark" to Paul:

1) Paul is the only known significant Christian author before "Mark".

2) Paul and "Mark" are remarkable together in that they both have a primary theme of discrediting historical witness.

3) Everyone agrees that a significant part of "Mark" is based on written sources.

The assumption of this Thread than that the default position is that Paul was a source for "Mark" is secure. Appeal to Authority will not overturn it. Only a better argument could. Continue with the Criteria:

Usage of the same word:

[T2]
English|
Greek|
Literal Context|
Spiritual Context|
Commentary||
Mark_14:51 "And a certain young man followed with him, having a linen cloth cast about him, over [his] naked [body]: and they lay hold on him;but he left the linen cloth, and fled naked."|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...v=51&i=conc#51 "young man, g3495 νεανίσκος neaniskos"|
Abandonment of Christ|
Failed Discipleship|
For now just note that the only Marker of The Young Man is the garment||
Mark_16:5 "And entering into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, arrayed in a white robe; and they were amazed. "|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...6&v=5&i=conc#5 "a young man g3495 νεανίσκος neaniskos|
Proclamation of the risen Christ|
Successful Discipleship|
Again, for now just note that the only Marker of The Young Man is the garment|
[/T2]

Note the reMarkable evidence of contrivance here. In a story which is primarily about young men, "Mark" uses the word for "young man" twice. The 1st usage has a literal context of abandoning Christ while the 2nd usage has a literal context of proclaiming the risen Christ. Both usages use a description of a garment. My next post will examine the descriptions of the garments.

At this point, if you do not want to confess that I have presented quality Literary Criticism evidence of Contrivance with "Mark's" use of The Young Man, than I ask (instruct/demand) that you not waste my time here with comments.


Joseph

ErrancyWiki

aa5874

Your statement is in error. There is no known date for the authorship of the Pauline Corpus. You seem not to understand that there is zero corroboration for any Pauline letter in the Canon.

In fact, there are apologetic sources which mention the Gospels but wrote nothing of the Pauline Corpus.

Again, you present more errors. There is no indication that gMark and the Pauline Corpus are historical accounts.

Virtually all the stories of Jesus in gMark and the Pauline Corpus are either total fiction or implausible.

It is really irrelevant that "Mark" is based on written sources when we know that gMark was most likely based on the Septuagint and the writings of Josephus.

Virtually all the words of gMark's Jesus are based on the Septuagint and the names of characters and places are found in the writings of Josephus.

It is not secure at all. It has already been pointed out to you that gMark 14 and 16 has no resemblance at all to Galatians 3.

The stories in gMark 14 and 16 are perfect examples that the author of gMark did not use the Pauline Corpus.

See http://www.religion-online.org/showc...le=1940&C=1765

A story about a naked man and a man in white clothes cannot be found anywhere in the Pauline Corpus.

Grog

What is "advanced?" How do you determine advanced versus primitive?

aa5874

Why do you pretend not to understand what I have written?

We have the Codex Sinaiticus and it shows that the author of gMark wrote nothing about universal remission of Sins by the death and resurrection of Jesus.

gMark's Jesus did not start a cult called Christians and had no intention of starting a new religion.

It was the authors of the later Gospels and the Pauline Corpus that changed the story.

The changes are well documented and have been recovered in pristine condition in the various Codices.

We can easily identify the changes made in the Canon to the story in gMark.

It can be readily shown that the Pauline Corpus matches the later Gospel and even Acts of the Apostles.

JoeWallack

JW:
We've seen that in a story which is primarily about young men, "Mark" uses the word for "young man" twice. The 1st usage has a literal context of abandoning Christ while the 2nd usage has a literal context of proclaiming the risen Christ. Both usages use a description of a garment. The descriptions of the garments:

[T2]
English|
Greek|
Literal Context|
Spiritual Context|
Commentary||
Mark_14:51 "And a certain young man followed with him, having a linen cloth cast about him, over [his] naked [body]: and they lay hold on him;but he left the linen cloth, and fled naked."|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...v=51&i=conc#51 "having a linen cloth g4616 σινδών sindōn"|
Garment of The Young Man|
The Garment of Christ|
The Young Man takes off The Garment of Christ at abandonment of Christ||
Mark_15:46 "And he bought a linen cloth, and taking him down, wound him in the linen cloth, and laid him in a tomb which had been hewn out of a rock; and he rolled a stone against the door of the tomb."|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...i=conc#conc/46 "in the linen, g4616 σινδών sindōn|
Garment of The Dead Christ|
The Garment of Christ|
The Garment of Christ put on Christ in Christ's death|
[/T2]

Again, note the reMarkable evidence of contrivance here. In a story which is primarily about young men who wear clothes, "Mark" uses the word for "linen" only in the two verses above. The 1st usage has a literal context of abandoning Christ while the 2nd usage has a literal context of clothing the fallen Christ. My next post will examine the descriptions of the garments at Transfiguration and Proclamation.

Perhaps more importantly I do not see my famous "Mark's" Diualcritical Marks. Evidence of Intentional Fiction in the Original Gospel in the Archives. Someone, anyone, Totuehller?


Joseph

ErrancyWiki

Toto

The archives are currently unavailable, but are not lost. Please address any questions regarding the return of the archives to RayJ or Jo.

James The Least

That would certainly make sense of the puzzling naked young man passage.

JoeWallack

JW:
We've seen that in a story which is primarily about young men, "Mark" uses the word for "young man" twice. The 1st usage has a literal context of abandoning Christ while the 2nd usage has a literal context of proclaiming the risen Christ. Both usages use a description of a garment. The garment of The Young Man at the abandonment of Christ is a Linen, which word the author uses one other time, it is also the garment of the fallen Christ. Now let's "see" the garment of The Young Man while proclaiming the risen Christ:

The descriptions of the garments:

[T2]
English|
Greek|
Literal Context|
Spiritual Context|
Commentary||
Mark_16:5 "And entering into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, arrayed in a white robe; and they were amazed."|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...6&v=5&i=conc#5 "in a long white g3022 λευκός leukos|
Garment of The Young Man|
The Garment of Christ|
The Young Man puts on The Garment of Christ at Proclamation of the risen Christ||
Mark_9:3 "and his garments became glistering, exceeding white, so as no fuller on earth can whiten them."|
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3022&t=KJV "white g3022 λευκός leukos|
Garment of The Transfigured Christ|
The Garment of Christ|
The Garment of Christ put on Christ at Proclamation of the risen Christ|
[/T2]

Yet again, note the reMarkable evidence of contrivance here. In a story which is primarily about young men who wear clothes, "Mark" uses the word for "white" only in the two verses above. The 1st usage has a literal context of the garment of The Transfigured Christ while the 2nd usage has a literal context of the garment of the disciple wearing the clothing of the Transfigured Christ. Thus our conclusion is secure that Literary Criticism supports The Young Man as being a literary device to illustrate the formula of failed and successful discipleship.

The next question is possible source for The Young Man who puts off and on The Garments of Christ. Now who could that be?

Bonus material for Solo. Now who is The Wolf (LeuCon) among the sheep?



Joseph

ErrancyWiki

JoeWallack

JW:
Perhaps the most famous line of Paul regarding "putting on the clothes of Christ" is Galatians 3:27

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1746&t=KJV

Note that the context of the offending word is clothing. Thus Paul as a possible source for "Mark" here is secure. Just how many times does Paul use this word and what are the contexts:

Rom 13:12 The night 3571 is far spent 4298 , 1161 the day 2250 is at hand 1448 : let us 659 0 therefore 3767 cast off 659 the works 2041 of darkness 4655, and 2532 let us put on1746 the armour 3696 of light 5457.

Rom 13:14 But 235 put ye on1746 the Lord 2962 Jesus 2424 Christ 5547, and 2532 make 4160 not 3361 provision 4307 for 1519 the flesh 4561, to [fulfil] the lusts 1939 [thereof].

1Cr 15:53 For 1063 this 5124 corruptible 5349 must 1163 put on1746 incorruption 861, and 2532 this 5124 mortal 2349 [must] put on1746 immortality 110.

1Cr 15:54 So 1161 when 3752 this 5124 corruptible 5349 shall have put on1746 incorruption 861, and 2532 this 5124 mortal 2349 shall have put on1746 immortality 110, then 5119 shall be brought to pass 1096 the saying 3056 that is written 1125 , Death 2288 is swallowed up 2666 in 1519 victory 3534.

2Cr 5:3 If 1489 so 2532 be that being clothed1746 we shall 2147 0 not 3756 be found 2147 naked 1131.

Eph 4:24 And 2532 that ye put on1746 the new 2537 man 444, which 3588 after 2596 God 2316 is created 2936 in 1722 righteousness 1343 and 2532 true 225 holiness 3742.

Eph 6:11 Put on1746 the whole armour 3833 of God 2316, that 4314 ye 5209 may be able 1410 to stand 2476 against 4314 the wiles 3180 of the devil 1228.

Eph 6:14 Stand 2476 therefore 3767, having 4024 0 your 5216 loins 3751 girt about 4024 with 1722 truth 225, and 2532 having on1746 the breastplate 2382 of righteousness 1343;

Col 3:10 And 2532 have put on1746 the new 3501 [man], which 3588 is renewed 341 in 1519 knowledge 1922 after 2596 the image of him 1504 that created 2936 him 846:

Col 3:12 Put on1746 therefore 3767, as 5613 the elect 1588 of God 2316, holy 40 and 2532 beloved 25 , bowels 4698 of mercies 3628, kindness 5544, humbleness of mind 5012, meekness 4236, longsuffering 3115;

1Th 5:8 But 1161 let 3525 0 us 2249, who are 5607 of the day 2250, be sober 3525 , putting on1746 the breastplate 2382 of faith 4102 and 2532 love 26; and 2532 for an helmet 4030, the hope 1680 of salvation 4991

Disclaimer = "have put on g1746 ἐνδύω endyō" is in "Mark's" inventory but this specific word is not used in the verses I previously identified. However, Paul's usage is a verb (an act) and "Mark's" usage is an adjective (generally).

So regarding criteria for parallels, the exact same word is not used. But the more important criterion of theme, here, Paul's figurative putting the attributes of his Christ on the successful disciple as if it were clothing, is one of his most important and repeated themes. And if "Mark" used this theme to help flesh out a narrative his narrative parallels very well with Paul's theme and he was extremely careful to limit the transfer of Christ's clothing theme to only the applicable parts of his narrative.

Thus we have excellent Theme parallels here and our conclusion, based on Literary Criticism, that Paul was a source for "Mark" here is secure.


Joseph

ErrancyWiki