Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 10-30-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Shesh,
Your #47 seems to imply that your #38 is an infallible papal pronouncement to which I must submit unless I can refute it. Or are you contending simply that the Muratorian Canon is inerrant Holy scripture? I think my posts #44 and 46 are all I need to say.

Obviously, I don't.

Sheshbazzar · 10-30-2012, 11:33 AM

Are you a Christian Adam ?

Adam · 10-30-2012, 11:37 AM

outhouse,
Are you really too dense to understand my exposure of the impossibility of a 200 CE source underlying a 90 CE document? The sources have to be before 90 CE. My thesis explains those sources, their extent and date. This is called source criticism. It is a legitimate scholarly study in itself. My theory goes a little farther than usual to suggest authors. Whether I am correct or not, someone wrote them. Am I supposed to accept that they fell down from heaven?

My case regarding Andrew was based originally on internal criticism only. Do you understand what internal criticism is? That means study of the words within John 1 to 21 only, disregarding appeals to authority whether ancient or modern. I determined on my own all the four proposed authors for gJohn (Nicodemus, Andrew, John Mark, though not so much John the Apostle). I was pleased to find out later that external criticism from an early source (the Muratorian Canon) suggested Andrew in the process. That was just extra support, not the basis for the idea.

Sheshbazzar · 10-30-2012, 11:39 AM

Are you a Christian Adam?

Adam · 10-30-2012, 11:44 AM

Pope Shesh apparently thinks that one cannot be both a Higher Critic and a Christian. I wonder on what papal bull or Fundamentalist sect he bases this.

Sheshbazzar · 10-30-2012, 11:47 AM

Are you a Christian Adam?

Adam · 10-30-2012, 12:09 PM

Please define "Christian". I don't want to waste a lot of bandwidth defending why I don't qualify as what you demand a Christian must be. My profile shows "Catholic (not Roman)", but I suspect that you like sotto voce would be sure that's enough to prove that I'm not a Christian.

Sheshbazzar · 10-30-2012, 12:14 PM

Are you a Christian Adam?

Adam · 10-31-2012, 01:11 PM

Maybe I have figured out why Shesh keeping asking me the same question. In Post #50 he was expecting me "to betray my true character". Maybe he expects I'll say that my whole thesis is just an elaborate joke on both atheists and Fundamentalist Christians, that I realize my luck can't hold out much longer before one or the other pops my bubble. Both extremes would be happy with that. That it's a joke that has held up so long that I'm coming to believe it myself. No, I'm a Baptized in the Spirit Christian. I wrote up my theory in 1980 to disprove liberal Christians who were dating the gospels late.
I also held up replying to Shesh because I wanted to give priority for outhouse to reply to my #46 about Nicodemus, responding to his #28 instructions on how to post. I guess he didn't like my choice for the first eyewitness, so let's try the next from my post #450:

As for Peter, the source for Ur-Marcus, his name turns up from the first when his brother Andrew finds him (John 1:40). Acts 15:7-12 records his speech. He is the most-named apostle, helping to identify material attributable to him in both the Synoptics and Acts. Limiting the purview to the gospels, however, Peter still turns up at the end at the Sea of Tiberius, John 21:23.

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread....nesses&page=18 (See Post #450)

outhouse · 10-31-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

The sources have to be before 90 CE.

well that is obvious

Quote:

My thesis explains those sources, their extent and date

Not correctly.

Stop

You dont get to play with other topics of you cannot get past Andrew and how you falsely percieve it.

The Johannine communities may have had eyewitness traditions of john. but by the time they were written, we cant even get a glimpse of what a real jew was trying to say.

John being so close to jesus a strict jew, would have never been involved with romans/gentiles or had any part of this movement not even close to what jesus started

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10-30-2012, 11:33 AM	#52
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Are you a Christian Adam ?

10-30-2012, 11:37 AM	#53
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	outhouse, Are you really too dense to understand my exposure of the impossibility of a 200 CE source underlying a 90 CE document? The sources have to be before 90 CE. My thesis explains those sources, their extent and date. This is called source criticism. It is a legitimate scholarly study in itself. My theory goes a little farther than usual to suggest authors. Whether I am correct or not, someone wrote them. Am I supposed to accept that they fell down from heaven? My case regarding Andrew was based originally on internal criticism only. Do you understand what internal criticism is? That means study of the words within John 1 to 21 only, disregarding appeals to authority whether ancient or modern. I determined on my own all the four proposed authors for gJohn (Nicodemus, Andrew, John Mark, though not so much John the Apostle). I was pleased to find out later that external criticism from an early source (the Muratorian Canon) suggested Andrew in the process. That was just extra support, not the basis for the idea.

10-30-2012, 11:39 AM	#54
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Are you a Christian Adam?

10-30-2012, 11:44 AM	#55
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Pope Shesh apparently thinks that one cannot be both a Higher Critic and a Christian. I wonder on what papal bull or Fundamentalist sect he bases this.

10-30-2012, 11:47 AM	#56
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Are you a Christian Adam?

10-30-2012, 12:09 PM	#57
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Please define "Christian". I don't want to waste a lot of bandwidth defending why I don't qualify as what you demand a Christian must be. My profile shows "Catholic (not Roman)", but I suspect that you like sotto voce would be sure that's enough to prove that I'm not a Christian.

10-30-2012, 12:14 PM	#58
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Are you a Christian Adam?

10-31-2012, 01:11 PM	#59
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Maybe I have figured out why Shesh keeping asking me the same question. In Post #50 he was expecting me "to betray my true character". Maybe he expects I'll say that my whole thesis is just an elaborate joke on both atheists and Fundamentalist Christians, that I realize my luck can't hold out much longer before one or the other pops my bubble. Both extremes would be happy with that. That it's a joke that has held up so long that I'm coming to believe it myself. No, I'm a Baptized in the Spirit Christian. I wrote up my theory in 1980 to disprove liberal Christians who were dating the gospels late. I also held up replying to Shesh because I wanted to give priority for outhouse to reply to my #46 about Nicodemus, responding to his #28 instructions on how to post. I guess he didn't like my choice for the first eyewitness, so let's try the next from my post #450: As for Peter, the source for Ur-Marcus, his name turns up from the first when his brother Andrew finds him (John 1:40). Acts 15:7-12 records his speech. He is the most-named apostle, helping to identify material attributable to him in both the Synoptics and Acts. Limiting the purview to the gospels, however, Peter still turns up at the end at the Sea of Tiberius, John 21:23. http://www.freeratio.org/showthread....nesses&page=18 (See Post #450)

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