Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Adam · 01-23-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Ahoy mates! Adam is getting really desperate, rather than addressing the points that are being made in other threads, Bad boy, he's attempting to get away with importing selected parts of them over to this sinking ship of a thread to obscure both context and content.
Be expecting you back on board "Gospel Eyewitnesses" to continue our discussion Adam.

First you need to own up to your self-contradiction I exposed in this thread in my #86. Everything you're saying over there is vitiated by your hypocrisy. For you, MJ is an unquestionable postulate that allows no consideration of any conflictiong evidence.

Sheshbazzar · 01-24-2012, 08:24 AM

This thread is supposedly about the 'Significance of John'. So here is your opportunity to blabber on about the 'Significance of John.
If you want to blabber on about my self-contradictions or hypocrisy there is no lack of room for you to address my posts and my faults in the thread "Gospel Eyewitnesses"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

For you, MJ is an unquestionable postulate that allows no consideration of any conflicting evidence.

So when are you going to provide a little of that conflicting evidence?
All we have thus far seen here is the circular-reasoning of 'The text says, therefore...' like a dog stupidly chasing its own tail.

And my latest posts within "Gospel Eyewitnesses" does consider the questionable postulates regarding the HJ/MJ controversy.
Can't help the fact that your proposed HJ just flat-ass loses in any credibility.

Adam · 04-30-2012, 05:29 PM

The value of the Gospel of John gets better recognized as time goes on, as seen in Timothy Ling’s The Judaean Poor and the Fourth Gospel

Quote:

In the 5th chapter, ‘John’s Social World’, Ling contests the normative sectarian view of the Fourth Gospel. He suggests that author’s detailed familiarity with the geography of Jerusalem suggests that the Fourth Gospel comes from the heart of Jerusalem; that the Fourth Gospel is not the product of some detached sect, but of someone who was intimately familiar with the Judaean social world. In this chapter again, Ling raises a bold and convincing....

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-30-2012, 05:43 PM

If they were so familiar then why did they think aposynagogos happened while Jesus was still alive?

Sheshbazzar · 04-30-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

The value of the Gospel of John gets better recognized as time goes on, as seen in Timothy Ling’s The Judaean Poor and the Fourth Gospel

Quote:

In the 5th chapter, ‘John’s Social World’, Ling contests the normative sectarian view of the Fourth Gospel. He suggests that author’s detailed familiarity with the geography of Jerusalem suggests that the Fourth Gospel comes from the heart of Jerusalem; that the Fourth Gospel is not the product of some detached sect, but of someone who was intimately familiar with the Judaean social world. In this chapter again, Ling raises a bold and convincing....

You do that realize that you are not presenting much in the way of any argument here?

Have you actually read Timothy J.M. Ling's book yet Adam?

I have not yet been able to locate any information at all on this individual.
Other than finding this book, do you have any other information concerning Timothy Ling? Education? Credentials?

As you seem to consider yourself to be our resident expert on the Fourth Gospel, for a beginning, perhaps you can provide some support for Timothy Ling's book, and this review by filling us in on exactly what verses of the Gospel of John it is that prove that the author had 'a detailed familiarity with the geography of Jerusalem'.

Adam · 04-30-2012, 11:15 PM

Well....uh....
But it does work. The link I gave to Michael Sandford's review of Ling starts right out saying:

Quote:

Timothy Ling’s broad-reaching monograph – which is a revised version of his doctoral thesis – is contentious and engaging throughout. He raises important questions for several different areas of New Testament scholarship.

and Sandford concludes his next paragraph revealing that Ling's got reviewed in SBL's Review of Biblical Literature. (Apparently not a very favorable review, but the reviewer Malina was sharply critiqued in Ling's book.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandford

His argument is persuasive and poses a challenge to the Context Group that must be taken seriously; it is unfortunate that responses to Ling’s arguments have so far not provided the serious critical engagement that Ling’s challenges warrant (B. J. Malina, ‘Review of Timothy Ling, The Judaean Poor and the Fourth Gospel’, RBL, 2007)

And with the information you found (or had someone find for you) about the middle initials "J. M." I found on Google lots of information about Timothy Ling. The review published in the Australian Biblical Review (Vol. 56, 2008) is very favorable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary L. Coloe

In his argument, Ling makes good use of recent studies on the Essenes and their influence on the religious and social world of Judea. His work on Bethany and the household of Martha, Mary and Lazarus was particularly intriguing.

Who was it just recently ridiculing me for tying the gospels into Qumran? Vork?

(For newcomers I should note that this is my thread presenting in electronic form my peer-reviewed article here in posts #1, #2, #13, #30, #45, #57, #59, #63, #77, and #80 and related links in #50 to my Noesis articles.)

Sheshbazzar · 04-30-2012, 11:24 PM

So....uh....
Have you actually read Timothy J.M. Ling's book yet Adam?

What do you know about Timothy J.M. Ling ? What are his qualifications?
Other than that you think some reviews of his book might be useful to prop up your theories here.

Sheshbazzar · 04-30-2012, 11:38 PM

For that matter just who is Michael J. Sandford?
And what does he do besides review books? What University or College is he affiliated with? What fields does he hold degrees in?
Are his opinions on the value or validity of various religious writings to be taken as being the writ of your Gawd?

Adam · 05-01-2012, 12:10 AM

Michael Sandford

Research degree

PhD in Biblical Studies

Thesis title or research topic

The historical Jesus

Paragraph or two about the scope of your research

My research is on the historical figure of Jesus, with a particular focus on his sayings that relate to poverty and wealth, and his relationship with Jewish nationalism and Roman imperialism.

Supervisor(s)

Dr James Crossley

Start date

October 2009

Brief personal biography

I grew up in London and moved to Sheffield to start my undergraduate degree, where I have stayed to complete my PhD.

Academic background

BA Biblical Studies, University of Sheffield 2006-2009

Your research interests
•The historical Jesus
•Postcolonial and Liberation Theology
•Contemporary uses of the Bible, especially relating to Israel-Palestine

Conferences (recent / relevant to your research)
•Empowerment and the Sacred, University of Leeds, 24-26 June 2011
•British New Testament Conference, University of Nottingham, 1-3 September, 2011
•Religion and (In)Equalities, University of Chester, 28-30 March, 2012
•The Bible, Zionism and Palestine, University of Sheffield, 24-26 May 2012
University of Sheffield’s

Sheshbazzar · 05-01-2012, 12:15 AM

So, now that we have that on hand, Are his opinions on the value or validity of various religious writings to be taken as being the writ of your Gawd?

Have you actually read Timothy J.M. Ling's book yet Adam ?

Planning to revise all of your own material so as to conform to Timothy's theories ?

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04-30-2012, 05:43 PM	#94
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	If they were so familiar then why did they think aposynagogos happened while Jesus was still alive?

04-30-2012, 11:24 PM	#97
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	So....uh.... Have you actually read Timothy J.M. Ling's book yet Adam? What do you know about Timothy J.M. Ling ? What are his qualifications? Other than that you think some reviews of his book might be useful to prop up your theories here.

04-30-2012, 11:38 PM	#98
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	For that matter just who is Michael J. Sandford? And what does he do besides review books? What University or College is he affiliated with? What fields does he hold degrees in? Are his opinions on the value or validity of various religious writings to be taken as being the writ of your Gawd?

05-01-2012, 12:10 AM	#99
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Michael Sandford Research degree PhD in Biblical Studies Thesis title or research topic The historical Jesus Paragraph or two about the scope of your research My research is on the historical figure of Jesus, with a particular focus on his sayings that relate to poverty and wealth, and his relationship with Jewish nationalism and Roman imperialism. Supervisor(s) Dr James Crossley Start date October 2009 Brief personal biography I grew up in London and moved to Sheffield to start my undergraduate degree, where I have stayed to complete my PhD. Academic background BA Biblical Studies, University of Sheffield 2006-2009 Your research interests •The historical Jesus •Postcolonial and Liberation Theology •Contemporary uses of the Bible, especially relating to Israel-Palestine Conferences (recent / relevant to your research) •Empowerment and the Sacred, University of Leeds, 24-26 June 2011 •British New Testament Conference, University of Nottingham, 1-3 September, 2011 •Religion and (In)Equalities, University of Chester, 28-30 March, 2012 •The Bible, Zionism and Palestine, University of Sheffield, 24-26 May 2012 University of Sheffield’s

05-01-2012, 12:15 AM	#100
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	So, now that we have that on hand, Are his opinions on the value or validity of various religious writings to be taken as being the writ of your Gawd? Have you actually read Timothy J.M. Ling's book yet Adam ? Planning to revise all of your own material so as to conform to Timothy's theories ?

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