Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 11:45 AM

Is it possible that the gospel - already said by Clement to have been written for the 'knights' - represents a syncretic form of Judaism adopted by the Roman knights after the conquest of Judaea in the manner of their absorption of the cult of Castor and Pollux in ancient history?

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 02:44 PM

The tax on all articles bought and sold was also continued (in Jerusalem), and, after the destruction of the Temple, the customary half-shekel had to be paid to Rome. If we bear in mind that a company of Roman knights farmed these taxes as a mercantile speculation, by lessees who employed publicans, while the latter, in turn, sought to profit as much as possible by the unpopular occupation in which they were engaged, it will be understood how a taxation, oppressive in itself became most odious and grinding. [Edersheim History of the Jewish Nation: After the Destruction of Jerusalem Under Titus p. 293]

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 02:55 PM

It is also curious that the European Crusades were developed around the idea of 'holy knights' (= Ordo Equestris Sancti Sepulcri Hierosolymitani, OESSH)

Quote:

The origins of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem date back to the First Crusade, when its leader, Godfrey de Bouillon, liberated Jerusalem. As part of his operations to organise the religious, military and public bodies of the territories newly freed from Muslim control, he founded the Order of Canons of the Holy Sepulchre. According to accounts of the Crusades, in 1103 the first King of Jerusalem, Baldwin I, assumed the leadership of this canonical order, and reserved the right for himself and his successors (as agents of the Patriarch of Jerusalem) to appoint Knights to it, should the Patriarch be absent or unable to do so.

The Order’s members included not only the Regular Canons (Fratres) but also the Secular Canons (Confratres) and the Sergentes. The latter were armed knights chosen from the crusader troops for their qualities of valour and dedication; they vowed to obey Augustinian Rule of poverty and obedience and undertook specifically, under the command of the King of Jerusalem, to defend the Holy Sepulchre and the Holy Places.

Very soon after the First Crusade the troops – including the Knights of the Order of Canons of the Holy Sepulchre – began to return to their homelands. This led to the creation of priories all over Europe, which were part of the Order as they came under the jurisdiction of the noble knights or prelates who had been invested on the Holy Sepulchre itself and who, although they were no longer in the direct service of the King of Jerusalem, continued to belong to the Order of Canons.

The Order first began to fail as a cohesive military body of knights after Saladin regained Jerusalem in 1182, and completely ceased to exist in that format after the defeat of Acre in 1291. The passing of the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem left the Order without a leader, though it continued to survive in the European priories thanks to the protection of sovereigns, princes, bishops and the Holy See. The priories kept alive the ideals of the Crusader Knights: propagation of the Faith, defence of the weak, charity towards other human beings. With the exception of events in Spain, it was only rarely that the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre ever took part again in military action to defend Christianity.

In the 14th century, the Holy See made an extremely high payment to the Egyptian Sultan so that he would grant the right to protect the Christian Sanctuaries to the Franciscan Friars Minor. Throughout the whole period of the Latin Patriarchate’s suppression, the right to create new Knights was the prerogative of the representative of the highest Catholic authority in the Holy Land: the Custos.

In 1847 the Patriarchate was restored and Pope Pius IX modernised the Order, issuing a new Constitution which placed it under the direct protection of the Holy See and conferred its government to the Latin Patriarch. The Order’s fundamental role was also defined: to uphold the works of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, whilst preserving the spiritual duty of propagating the Faith.

In 1949, Pius XII decreed that the Grand Master of the Order should be a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church and assigned the position of Grand Prior to the Patriarch of Jerusalem. In 1962 Pope John XXIII and, in 1967, Pope Paul VI reorganised and revitalised the Order by adding more specific regulations to the Constitution with the intention of making the Order’s activities more co-ordinated and more effective.

In February 1996, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II enhanced the Order’s status. Today it is a Public Association of faithful with a legal canonical and public personality, constituted by the Holy See under Canon Law 312, paragraph 1:1.

Over and above its historic connotations and its eventful progress in times gone by, the valuable and interesting aspects of the Order today lie in the role assigned to it, which it pursues within the sphere of the Catholic Church and through its administrative structure and its local organisations in various communities http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/in...bindex_en.html

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 03:00 PM

More on Pilate as an equestrian prefect:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pRd...usalem&f=false

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 03:01 PM

The ruins of the Jewish temple were permanently insulted by images of divinized emperors, namely, equestrian statues of Hadrian and his adopted son and successor Antoninus Pius (138-61) http://books.google.com/books?id=rOd...usalem&f=false

Also re-consider the traditional image of Elisha ben Abuyah riding horseback (= equestrian) on the Sabbath.

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 04:53 PM

Another equestrian figure in the gospel - the centurion:

Quote:

The professional army was composed of free Roman citizens who, by the time of Augustus (see Chapter 6), were career military men. The lowest rank of officers were the centurions, who came from the equestrian orders (the knights in the Roman army), from city council posts, and from various cohorts where they had served well. http://www.scribd.com/doc/130681642/...us-for-Dummies

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 05:00 PM

Luke's Theophilus an equestrian? Yes probably, according to Zondervan:

The adjective “most excellent” (Lk. 1:3) implies that he probably belonged to the equestrian order (perhaps holding some official position; see EXCELLENT, MOST)

Entry for excellent, most - The title “most excellent” (Gk. kratistos G3196, superlative of kratys, “strong” [cf. kratos G3187]) is found four times in the NT. It may have been the official rendering of the Latin vir egregius, which meant “a man of equestrian rank,” that is, one of the knights who came in order after senators in ROME. The title was applied to FELIX (Acts 23:26; 24:3) and to FESTUS (Acts 26:25), both of whom were governors of Judea. In addition, the term could be used more generally as a courtesy title in addressing one honored for his position, such as Theophilus http://books.google.com/books?id=fKP...ed=0CC8Q6AEwAA

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 05:01 PM

A temple of Jupiter, with an equestrian statue of Hadrian, adorned the Temple area; a temple of Venus was built on Calvary. Access to the city was forbidden to Jews, including those converted to Christianity, on pain of death. http://books.google.com/books?id=h5t...ary%22&f=false

Jerome - "Of Hadrian's equestrian statue, which to the present day stands on the very site of the Holy of Holies" in his "Holy Places of Jerusalem"

stephan huller · 06-13-2013, 05:03 PM

Vespasian's parents were of the equestrian rank, and hence, for an emperor, his social background was relatively humble. http://books.google.com/books?id=ds-...%20%22&f=false

Vespasian kept the key public offices for himself, Titus, and members of the equestrian class. He appointed several of these financial leaders to the high assembly, and permitted the equestrians to wear a golden ring like the senators and thereby gain the privilege of having an audience with the Emperor 2 (Statius Silvae iii. 3. 144 f. Dio History lxv. 10.)

Cheerful Charlie · 06-13-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The following quotation is from the Latin of Cassiodorus as modified by Clifton Black:

Quote:

Mark, Peter's follower [sectator] while Peter was preaching [praedicante] publicly the Gospel at Rome in the presence of certain of Caesar's equestrians [equitubus, i.e., members of the equestrian order] and was putting forward many testimonies concerning Christ, being requested [petitus] by them that they might be able to commit to memory the things that were being spoken, wrote from the things which were spoken by Peter the Gospel which is called according to Mark. [Clement Hypotyposeis from Adumbrations in 1 Peter 5:13 from C Clifton Black].

Here is a perfect example of why Jeffrey's departure isn't an entirely bad thing (even though I hope beyond measure he comes back). If you were to start a thread like this, his mind would explode. 'Imperial conspiracy theories are ridiculous!' or some such hobby horse of his. But here is explicit evidence - perhaps our best and earliest evidence about the creation of the gospel of Mark - which makes that 'preposterous claim' explicit. Is there any other way to interpret this evidence?

I welcome any counter argument.

Well, no. Papius, quoted by Eusebius, stated that what Mark wrote was not a narrative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis
About the origins of the Gospels, Papias (as quoted by Eusebius) Quoting John the Elder wrote:
`And this the Presbyter used to say [this is in the plural implying John the Elder would employ this argument multiple times in defense of Mark's Gospel]: "Mark, being the recorder of Peter, wrote accurately but not in order whatever he [Peter] remembered of the things either said or done by the Lord; for he [Mark] had neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but later, as I said, Peter, who used to make teachings according to the cheias, [a special kind of anecdote] but not making as it were a systematic composition of the Lord's sayings; so that Mark did not err at all when he wrote certain things just as he had recalled [them]. For he had but one intention, not to leave out anything he had heard, nor to falsify anything in them". This is what was related by Papias about Mark. But about Matthew`s this was said: "For Matthew composed the logia [sayings] in Hebrew style; but each recorded them as he was able"

Mark is indeed an orderly narrative. It is not clear that the Mark of Cassiodorus was a gospel, if these two testamonies refer to the same Mark or the same written material.
Cassiodorus wrote much later than Papius and may have not quite got the story right, he may have gotten it directly or indirectly from Papius, or via Eusebius.

Long ago, I read a hypothesis that Mark laterr rewrote his raw notes crreating the gospel of Mark and possibly the last page was lost accounting for the early gospels of Mark stopping at Mark 16;8.

Interesting speculation but not provable one way or the other.

Cheerful Charlie

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-13-2013, 11:45 AM	#31
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Is it possible that the gospel - already said by Clement to have been written for the 'knights' - represents a syncretic form of Judaism adopted by the Roman knights after the conquest of Judaea in the manner of their absorption of the cult of Castor and Pollux in ancient history?

06-13-2013, 02:44 PM	#32
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The tax on all articles bought and sold was also continued (in Jerusalem), and, after the destruction of the Temple, the customary half-shekel had to be paid to Rome. If we bear in mind that a company of Roman knights farmed these taxes as a mercantile speculation, by lessees who employed publicans, while the latter, in turn, sought to profit as much as possible by the unpopular occupation in which they were engaged, it will be understood how a taxation, oppressive in itself became most odious and grinding. [Edersheim History of the Jewish Nation: After the Destruction of Jerusalem Under Titus p. 293]

06-13-2013, 03:00 PM	#34
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	More on Pilate as an equestrian prefect: http://books.google.com/books?id=pRd...usalem&f=false

06-13-2013, 03:01 PM	#35
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The ruins of the Jewish temple were permanently insulted by images of divinized emperors, namely, equestrian statues of Hadrian and his adopted son and successor Antoninus Pius (138-61) http://books.google.com/books?id=rOd...usalem&f=false Also re-consider the traditional image of Elisha ben Abuyah riding horseback (= equestrian) on the Sabbath.

06-13-2013, 05:00 PM	#37
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Luke's Theophilus an equestrian? Yes probably, according to Zondervan: The adjective “most excellent” (Lk. 1:3) implies that he probably belonged to the equestrian order (perhaps holding some official position; see EXCELLENT, MOST) Entry for excellent, most - The title “most excellent” (Gk. kratistos G3196, superlative of kratys, “strong” [cf. kratos G3187]) is found four times in the NT. It may have been the official rendering of the Latin vir egregius, which meant “a man of equestrian rank,” that is, one of the knights who came in order after senators in ROME. The title was applied to FELIX (Acts 23:26; 24:3) and to FESTUS (Acts 26:25), both of whom were governors of Judea. In addition, the term could be used more generally as a courtesy title in addressing one honored for his position, such as Theophilus http://books.google.com/books?id=fKP...ed=0CC8Q6AEwAA

06-13-2013, 05:01 PM	#38
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	A temple of Jupiter, with an equestrian statue of Hadrian, adorned the Temple area; a temple of Venus was built on Calvary. Access to the city was forbidden to Jews, including those converted to Christianity, on pain of death. http://books.google.com/books?id=h5t...ary%22&f=false Jerome - "Of Hadrian's equestrian statue, which to the present day stands on the very site of the Holy of Holies" in his "Holy Places of Jerusalem"

06-13-2013, 05:03 PM	#39
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Vespasian's parents were of the equestrian rank, and hence, for an emperor, his social background was relatively humble. http://books.google.com/books?id=ds-...%20%22&f=false Vespasian kept the key public offices for himself, Titus, and members of the equestrian class. He appointed several of these financial leaders to the high assembly, and permitted the equestrians to wear a golden ring like the senators and thereby gain the privilege of having an audience with the Emperor 2 (Statius Silvae iii. 3. 144 f. Dio History lxv. 10.)

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.