Originally Posted by Adam

Sources, please. And define the word "massive" as you use it here. Are you admitting that there is massive evidence for leaving Egypt, which is the point at issue.

Or is your view based on the fallacy, "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence", modified here to be, "Absence of much current scholarship on the Hyksos is evidence there were no Hyksos and that all prior scholarship about the Hyksos is bogus." What about Manfred Bietak's archaeological digs?

Originally Posted by Duvduv

This is an open forum. Please reread its FAQs unless you serve as moderator and have changed them. What is prohibited in this Forum is "evangelizing" and promoting one's own theology. If this were an issue for me in relation to my postings I think I would have heard of it by now.

I honestly do not know where you get your descriptions of me. I also think you should check up on the history of Jacob Frank. Beyond that you should probably relax a bit. You do not have to attack me personally as I do not attack you personally. It's called argumentum ad hominem.

Originally Posted by semiopen

The moderators give you amazing leeway. I can't explain it.

You also have a problem in that you don't read other posts. I've repeatedly suggested that you be barred.

The same problem is evident in the Black Madonna sub thread. You are not bothering to look at my links which show that the Black Madonna is different than Frank's daughter.

Finally, you continue your silly projecting of your faults on me.

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

duvduv

Evangelizing is using a thread to promote a personal faih while not entering into debate, testifying to your faith is another word for it.

A Christian repeatedly saying Jesus saved him or Jesus is lord in response to questions would be evangelizing. It happens. A thread gets hijacked.

I don't see you as evangelizing, at leas not to any major degree. .If you get filled with the spirit and begin proclaiming the glories of David and Solomon to us, that would be evanegelizng...

'...Your personal insults (hysteria?) do nothing for your argument except to demonstrate the intolerance and bigotry of your branch of secularism. Is there such a thing as a secular Ku Klux Klan burning something on religious people's front yards?..'

Totally uncalled for and IMO a TOU violation. The forum has generally been pretty even handed to you. The op is about evidence fo Exodus, which you are unable to provide at least in any coherent way.

You have not refuted the basic objections based on logistcs alone.

That above is a typical angry kind of end game theist response when we collectively reuse to accept

1. Hand waving and generalizations for specific arguments.

2. A reliance on claiming directly or indirectly the bible by definition is truth. I win a-priori because the bible is true and god is real.


3. Inability to directly answer questions and refute objetions. I asked a number o times what is your belief in Exodus and why. Your reponse is asking what do I think about something else.

I suggest you take a little time and work up a coherent argument to support Exodus rather than calling us Nazis. I think calling people Nazis may be one of the TOU updates.

Baesd on the Exodus numbers, time span, and area what is your reponse to objections based on reosurces like food, sanitation, and water?

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Semiopen, didn't any ever teach you civility and courtesy when you went to Hebrew School twenty years ago?? Not even Sherlock Holmes?

Originally Posted by semiopen

Adam, if you are going to make some point about the Hyksos, why not just make it.

I mentioned Thompson's view here.

The history is obscure.

Simcha Jacobi had an infamous TV thing, tieing them to the Exodus that has been debunked

Debunking "The Exodus Decoded

This is just a random article.

John Van Seters also has some discussion of the Hyksos in Abraham in History and Tradition (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Anyway, I don't think there was a hardcore invasion of Egypt by the Hyksos nor a physical expulsion - like send them back to Palestine.

But whatever you are driving at is a mystery, are you just asking people to do research for you?

Originally Posted by Adam

I did lots of research, but eventually had to set aside some pro-Exodus theories as by David Rohl (with his new chronology and small exodus in the Sinai) and Lennart Moeller (massive Exodus into Arabia). That seems to leave the Hyksos as the best refuge for salvaging some historicity for the Pentateuch.

I used to assume the old view, that the Hyksos were mighty Indo-European
conquerors. That's been debunked by John Van Seters, as you say, and he has a whole book about it
The Hyksos: A New Investigation (or via: amazon.co.uk)
that they were Semitic Amorites who infiltrated part of Egypt and took over in an internal coup. As Semites, they wouldn't necessarily take back lots of Egyptian culture with them if they wound up back in Canaan.

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I don't really follow what you are saying. I expressed some exasperation about what I consider to be secular bigotry and arrogance, but that is not a violation of the FAQs. In fact I am careful to note my approach in comparison with that of several other posters.
I think you know what I believe about the Exodus, but unless you wish to turn this thread into a Yeshiva class reviewing a great deal of Jewish literature over many hundreds of years I suggest we not go there.