aa5874

It can be argued that to understand Jesus of the NT that we must first examine the stories of the Jesuses in Joseph(us).

1. In Joseph(us), there is a Jesus the brother of James--In Galatians Jesus was the brother of James.

2. In Joseph(us), there is a Jesus who was a High Priest--In Hebrews Jesus is a High Priest.

3. In Joseph(us), a Jesus lived in Galilee--In the Gospels Jesus lived in Galilee.

4. In Joseph(us), a Jesus was a leader of mariners and poor people--In the Gospels, Jesus had mariners as his apostles and the poor followed him.

5. In Joseph(us), a Jesus predicted calamities for Jerusalem---In the Gospels, Jesus predicted calamities for Jerusalem.

6. In Joseph(us), a Jesus was beaten after he was brought before the procurator--Jesus of the Gospels was beaten at his trial..

7. In Joseph(us), John was a Baptizer---Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist in the Gospels.

8. In Joseph(us), a Jesus was executed---In the Gospels Jesus was crucified.

9. In Joseph(us), three were crucified and one survived---In the Gospels, three were crucified and Jesus resurrected.

10. Joseph(us) begged for crucified---In the Gospel Joseph begged for the body of the crucified Jesus.

It would appear that parts of the Jesus character are products of Joseph(us).

In other words, Joseph(us) is the supposed "FATHER" of the Jesus character in the NT.

MrMacSon

It would be interesting if this is tied to Jerusalem 66-68AD leaders Ananus the Younger and his alleged deputy Joshua/Jesus - Jesus ben Damneus??

Jesus ben Damneus? ...... Hebrews 4:14-16


"supposed" father? You mean 'likely origin'?

It would be interesting to tease out more the Jesuses in Josephus eg.

Jesus ben Saphat - led the rebels in Tiberias in the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee ("the leader of a seditious tumult of mariners and poor people" – Josephus, Life 12.66)

Jesus ben Gamala - During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’) ... When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.

Jesus ben Thebuth - a priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus.

Jesus ben Stada - a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (25 miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history.

Jesus ben Damneus Antiquities 20 - brother of [a] James

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm

James The Least

Note that all of the Jesuses in Josephus have "ben" Something in their names except Jesus of the Testimonium, who is simply "Jesus, a wise man."

gurugeorge

Well of course, that's certainly a big, important question, but it's not the question someone else asked you and I've just asked you. Now can you please answer that question without ejecting a load of squid ink?

outhouse

Which only proves rebellion against the corruption and oppression was common.

Paul predates this fellow.

This Jesus made no real sacrifice compared to the Jesus 40 year prior written about by paul.

aa5874

Please, I have answered your questions so you stop wasting your ink.

The Pauline Corpus are forgeries or false attribution fabricated to DECEIVE.

The Pauline Corpus was composed AFTER c 180 CE.

Certainly you must understand that many writings in the Canon were FALSELY attributed to characters who most likely did not exist like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, Peter, James and Saul/Paul.

Effectively, the NT Canon is fundamentally the Flagship of False Attribution or Forgeries. 100% of all the authors either did not exist at the time or did NOT write what was attributed to them.

The supposed authors of the Canon either were followers of Jesus who never did exist, his acquaintance, his relative or in the case of the Pauline writer, one who knew the Apostles Peter and James.

There is one major problem for the Pauline writers. Jesus was NOT human--Jesus was Myth--Jesus did NOT resurrect--the Apostles Peter and James had no real existence--there were NO Churches in Christ before c 66 CE.

We have the DSS, Philo, Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius.

The DSS, Philo, Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius gave accounts of the 100 years of the 1st century in the Roman Empire.

The story of Resurrected Lord Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God, the Creator, the Logos had ZERO, ZERO influence on the Roman Empire for the 100 years of the 1st century.

We know "WHY Paul"? "Paul" was fabricated to DECEIVE.

Up to the late 2nd century, Celsus a non-apologetic writer made arguments AGAINST the Jesus story and Christians but NEVER mentioned Paul or the Pauline Corpus.

Even, Christian writers like Aristides, Justin, Minucius Felix, and Arnobius of the 2nd century and later did NOT acknowledge "Paul".

Examine Origen's Against Celsus 1.63 No Pauline letters have been recovered and dated before c 70 CE.

There is simply no corroborative evidence to show that the Pauline writers were ever responsible for the spread of the Jesus cult in the Roman Empire up to c 180 CE.

Why Paul you ask?

Why Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, James, Peter and Jude?? What did they really write in the Canon?

Why did Justin NOT identify any specific named author for the Memoirs called Gospels??

The names of the authors of the Canon were ADDED to DECEIVE people into believing the books of the Canon were composed before c 66 CE.

The start of the Jesus cult of Christians was in the 2nd century because that is exactly when the Jesus story IMPACTED the Roman Empire and Non-Apologetic writers.

MrMacSon

It is certainly feasible that the Jesus/messiah of the Pauline texts was different to the one written about in the canonical gospels, and the two different sets of documents were merged later (eg. late 2nd C)

outhouse

Is it not the popular view within scholarships that Paul influenced Mark’s Gospel?


I find ZERO reason why two characters would need to be written about in the same exact way. I think your statement is unsubstantiated.

MrMacSon

I have never seen reference to Paul influencing the writer of the Gospel according to 'Mark'.

There were many messiah at the time, and many versions of salvation stories; many of those salvation stories have various versions of them - hence the apocryphal/gnostic gospels. Later editing and changes in translation & transcription would have accounted for more changes or alignment with other stories.

The NT was collated at some point; with editing to align the stories.

outhouse

And none written more about then a Galilean teacher, healer, who died on a cross at Passover fighting the corruption in the temple before it fell right around 30 CE, and described in detail! not to be confused with others.