Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jaybees · 09-08-2013, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

All I was asserting by way of example is that there plenty of historical figures for whom no actual empirical evidence exists, and yet people take as a given that they did exist, except in cases of biblical figures such as King David.

Historical figure? What do you mean by that? Are the actors in the Iliad historical? I won't even get into "empirical evidence?" That's an additional can of worms.

Many people accept that King David (as well as King Agamemnon) existed, many don't. So?

Duvduv · 09-08-2013, 01:35 PM

Was SOCRATES a historical figure? Is there ANY empirical evidence for his existence? Was Hammurabi? Is there any EMPIRICAL evidence confirming his existence? Or Julius Caesar? Why pick on King David or Moses only?
And where are all the millions of graves of people who died in ancient times whether in Canaan or anywhere else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybees

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

All I was asserting by way of example is that there plenty of historical figures for whom no actual empirical evidence exists, and yet people take as a given that they did exist, except in cases of biblical figures such as King David.

Historical figure? What do you mean by that? Are the actors in the Iliad historical? I won't even get into "empirical evidence?" That's an additional can of worms.

Many people accept that King David (as well as King Agamemnon) existed, many don't. So?

Iskander · 09-08-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Was SOCRATES a historical figure? Is there ANY empirical evidence for his existence? Was Hammurabi? Is there any EMPIRICAL evidence confirming his existence? Or Julius Caesar? Why pick on King David or Moses only?
And where are all the millions of graves of people who died in ancient times whether in Canaan or anywhere else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybees

Historical figure? What do you mean by that? Are the actors in the Iliad historical? I won't even get into "empirical evidence?" That's an additional can of worms.

Many people accept that King David (as well as King Agamemnon) existed, many don't. So?

Relax Duvduv, archaeologists could never “disprove”(?) the existence of David.

Minimalist · 09-10-2013, 08:07 PM

But they sure as hell can demonstrate that there was no great capital city of a far-flung empire on the site in the 10th century.

Meanwhile...

Quote:

Socrates is mentioned in documents written by three people who were alive during his purported lifetime. Whether the three writers worked independently of one another cannot be known with certainty. On the face of things, it is not obvious that any of them influenced the others, but it is hardly inconceivable that they could have. Socrates appears as a character in at least two of Aristophanes' plays. He appears as an interlocutor in a substantial portion of Plato's writings, and he plays a similar role in some of Xenophon's work.[2] Xenophon's material is similar to some of Plato's but not entirely consistent.

If a single contemporary Greco-Roman or Jewish writer had written about jesus we would not be having this argument.....again. If a single contemporary Greco-Roman or Jewish writer had written about a fantastic story about a convicted criminal being executed and coming back to life we would not be having this discussion even if he did not mention the name "jesus."

Alas, we have neither.

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