Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 07-08-2013, 07:33 PM

Perhaps the pagans celebrated a BBQ at the temple on the weekend to which many people were invited. The letter of Pliny to Trajan (which is quite possibly a forgery) makes a reference to such practice.

The practice of "pagan sacrifice" that was prohibited by Constantine and all following Christian emperors could have been a simple community pagan BBQ.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Clivedurdle · 07-09-2013, 01:13 AM

Nigella, 2700 years ago! I think there is a description of a cooking machine in here.

Quote:

Once the men had prayed and flung the barley first they lifted back the heads of the victims , slit their throats, skinned them and carved away the meat from the thigh bones and wrapped them in fat, a double fold sliced clean and topped with strips of flesh, and they burned these on a cleft stick, peeled and dry, spitted the vitals, held them over Hephaestus' flames and once they'd charred the thighs and tasted the organs they cut the rest into pieces, pierced them with spits, roasted them to a turn and pulled them off the fire . The work done, the feast laid out they ate well and no man's hunger lacked a share of the banquet. When they had put aside their desire for food and drink, Nestor the old horseman spoke out first....

Iliad

Very very different to the Eucharist!

Clivedurdle · 07-09-2013, 01:44 AM

Quote:

And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43And fear came on every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; …

Acts 2

The above doesn't make sense.

A huge proportion of the wealth of the Roman Empire was committed to transporting grain to feed people - the corn dole. Food probably was generally available via the temple sacrifices if you did not have your own resources. Many cultures still have very strong beliefs about feeding visitors. Clean drinking water was definitely there.

Had they been outlawed because they were a banned voluntary organisation and had to depend on each other's resources from a fearful perspective?

The story in Acts is not an example of advance, and co-operation, but of an isolated, paranoid, unreal cult.

And all they had to do was a little prayer to the gods. Was it really that important a stumbling block to die for? What is the problem with some ceremonial deism?

Iskander · 07-09-2013, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Nigella, 2700 years ago! I think there is a description of a cooking machine in here.

Quote:

Once the men had prayed and flung the barley first they lifted back the heads of the victims , slit their throats, skinned them and carved away the meat from the thigh bones and wrapped them in fat, a double fold sliced clean and topped with strips of flesh, and they burned these on a cleft stick, peeled and dry, spitted the vitals, held them over Hephaestus' flames and once they'd charred the thighs and tasted the organs they cut the rest into pieces, pierced them with spits, roasted them to a turn and pulled them off the fire . The work done, the feast laid out they ate well and no man's hunger lacked a share of the banquet. When they had put aside their desire for food and drink, Nestor the old horseman spoke out first....

Iliad

Very very different to the Eucharist!

The army sacrifices hecatombs to god and fed and wined the soldiers. The excerpt you have posted is a description of a conscripted army of conquest expecting very heavy casualties when they launch an ill-advised frontal assault on the high wall of Troy.

The army prays, and fills its stomach with the food of a king and dulls its senses with wine and with the expectation of rape and theft once the city falls.

The decision to provide plentiful food and drink in congenial surroundings was taken by the highest military council preparing the decisive attack on the city of Troy.

Quote:

The assembly is recalled, several speeches made on the occasion, and at length the advice of Nestor followed, which was to make a general muster of the troops, and to divide them into their several nations, before they proceeded to battle. This gives occasion to the poet to enumerate all the forces of the Greeks and Trojans, and in a large catalogue.
The time employed in this book consists not entirely of one day. The scene lies in the Grecian camp, and upon the sea-shore; towards the end it removes to Troy.

The Iliad of Homer, trans. Alexander Pope with notes by the Rev. Theodore Alois Buckley, M. A., F. S. A.,the Pennsylvania State University, Electronic Classics Series, Jim Manis, Faculty Editor, Hazleton, PA18201-1291 is a Portable Document File produced as part of an ongoing student publication project to bring classical works of literature, in English, to free and easy access of those wishing to make use of them.
Copyright © 2004 The Pennsylvania State University

Bronzeage · 07-09-2013, 06:52 AM

In one of the myths of Prometheus, The Gods are upset that humans do not worship them and decide to destroy the human race. Prometheus(who created the human race in another myth) intercedes and instructs humans to sacrifice and butcher a bull for the Gods. Prometheus then makes two piles from the carcass. One is the flesh and the other is bones, entrails and skin. Prometheus stacks the second pile so it appears twice the size of the first and asks the Gods to choose their offering. They take the big pile, which is tossed on the fire and consumed. The humans proceed to have the first dinner on the grounds.

Since that time, Hellenic sacrifice reserved the entrails for the Gods and the meat for the humans.

Clivedurdle · 07-10-2013, 11:24 AM

OK, we first ignore the gods, then we fool them, now many many people take them seriously.

Why?

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07-08-2013, 07:33 PM	#11
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Perhaps the pagans celebrated a BBQ at the temple on the weekend to which many people were invited. The letter of Pliny to Trajan (which is quite possibly a forgery) makes a reference to such practice. The practice of "pagan sacrifice" that was prohibited by Constantine and all following Christian emperors could have been a simple community pagan BBQ. εὐδαιμονία \| eudaimonia

07-09-2013, 06:52 AM	#15
Bronzeage Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Deep South, USA Posts: 7,568	In one of the myths of Prometheus, The Gods are upset that humans do not worship them and decide to destroy the human race. Prometheus(who created the human race in another myth) intercedes and instructs humans to sacrifice and butcher a bull for the Gods. Prometheus then makes two piles from the carcass. One is the flesh and the other is bones, entrails and skin. Prometheus stacks the second pile so it appears twice the size of the first and asks the Gods to choose their offering. They take the big pile, which is tossed on the fire and consumed. The humans proceed to have the first dinner on the grounds. Since that time, Hellenic sacrifice reserved the entrails for the Gods and the meat for the humans.

07-10-2013, 11:24 AM	#16
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	OK, we first ignore the gods, then we fool them, now many many people take them seriously. Why?

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