stephan huller

I think the idea that Jesus was hailing the advent of someone else is intimated in a number of anti-Marcionite texts and in particular De Recta in Deum Fide.

Diogenes the Cynic

That's actually Ehrman's theory too.

aa5874

The KJV is NOT the only translation that uses the definite article.

I cannot rely on your explanation at all. You seem to think "MAPKON" refers to German MAP makers.

It would appear the authors of the Gospels used the Septuagint and NOT the Hebrew Bible.

When the Septuagint is examined the Greek version of Daniel 7.13 and the Greek New Testament version of Mark 14.62 the phrases "son of man" and "with the clouds of heaven" are found.

The Jesus character was LIKE a/the Son of man and would come with the clouds of heaven.

ΔΑΝΙΗΛ 7.13 ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΡΚΟΝ 14:62Daniel 7:13 NASMark 14:62 NAS The story of the Son of man COMING with the Clouds of heaven in the earliest Gospel was COPIED from the book of Daniel and then COPIED by the LATER Gospel authors.

ΔΑΝΙΗΛ 7.13-------------- τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ.

KATA MAPKON 14.62 -----τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:30---τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ

spin

Got a reference?

stephan huller

Jesus says that the Son of Man will suffer, be crucified and die. The Islamic pseudepigrapha says that figure was Judas. The gnostic heretics seem to have had a similar idea:

How, then, could Judas, the betrayer of Him who had to suffer for our salvation, be the type and image of that AEon who suffered? [Irenaeus Adv Haer 2.10.2]

Judas, then, the twelfth in order of the disciples, was not a type of the suffering AEon, nor, again, was the passion of the Lord [ibid 2.10.3]

DCHindley

Just to put the academic discussion, at least as it relates to the use of Son of Man in the Parables of 1st Enoch, into a historical perspective, here is what one of the earlier heavy hitting critics had to say:

(Charles, R H) APOT vol 2 Pseudepigrapha (1913)

[174](b) Phrases and passages which are adduced by Schmidt [O.T. and Semitic Studies, ii. 336-43] in support of an Aramaic original. ... But 'the most convincing evidence ... of an Aramaic original is furnished by the Ethiopic translations of the term "Son of Man". They are walda sab'e xlvi. 2, 3, 4; xlviii. 2; lx. 10: walda b'esi lxii. 5; l.xix. 29a,b; lxxi. 14 : and walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw lxii. 7, 9, 14; lxiii. 11 ; lxix. 26, 27 ; lxx. 1 ; lxxi. 17. . . . Of these the last is the most peculiar. Literally it means "the son of the offspring of the mother of the living"... and is a rendering of οἱ ἄνθρωποι, οἱ υἱοὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων and especially of υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου.' Schmidt then proceeds to emphasize the importance of these different renderings in the Parables, whereas in the N.T. it is the last that is uniformly used as a rendering of ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, and observes : 'before lxii he uses no other term than walda sab'e, the equivalent of the Aramaic בר נשא. Later he employs four times the phrase walda b'esi which corresponds to the Aramaic ברה דגברא . . . . This title is found in the Palestinian Lectionary, the Curetonian Fragments, and the Sinaitic text'. From the above evidence Schmidt concludes that, if the translator had 'a Greek text before him in which the N.T. title ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου was uniformly used', it would be scarcely conceivable that he would have used three distinct Ethiopic expressions to render it, and 'these of such a nature as to correspond exactly to the three different Ethiopic terms'. He holds, therefore, that 'the conclusion seems inevitable that he translated directly from the Aramaic. . . . General considerations strengthen this conclusion. If the Parables of Enoch were translated from a Greek text one would certainly expect to find somewhere a quotation from it or a reference to it in early Christian literature'. But Schmidt can find none.

The last argument I will answer first. The reader has only to refer to the list of parallels between the N.T. books and the Parables on pp. 180 sq. in order to learn that the Parables did influence, and that directly, the writers of the N.T. Further, Tertullian's words, when discussing the authenticity of 1 Enoch, cannot be adequately explained, unless as bearing on passages in the Parables referring to the Son of Man : 'Cum Enoch eadem scriptura etiam de domino praedicarit, a nobis quidem nihil omnino reiiciendum est quod pertineat ad nos. . . A Iudaeis potest iam videri propterea reiecta, sicut et cetera fere quae sonant Christum ' (De Cultu [175] Fem. i. 3). The Noah Apocalypse, moreover, which is interpolated in the Parables, is referred to in Origen, Contra Celsum v. 52 οὓς (i.e. τοὺς ἀγγέλους) [δὴ] γενέσθαι κακοὺς καὶ κολάζεσθαι δεσμοῖς ὑποβληθέντας ἐν γῇ, ὅθεν καὶ τὰς θερμὰς πηγὰς εἶναι τὰ ἐκείνων δάκρυα (1 En. lxvii. 6, 11, 12). This evidence necessitates the existence of a Greek Version of the Parables.

Let us turn now to the next argument. The Ethiopic must have, been made direct from the Aramaic because of the three forms in which the title 'Son of Man' is given in the Ethiopic, since these, according to Schmidt, correspond exactly to the three forms in Aramaic. But here I must join issue. We have, unless I have failed wholly in this study, seen that the evidence adduced by Schmidt for an Aramaic original is quite inconclusive, and that on the contrary the evidence so far points, though not conclusively, to a Hebrew original. For this conclusion other evidence will be adduced later. We are not, therefore, predisposed to accept such an extraordinary thesis as that the Ethiopic must have been made directly from the Aramaic. Before dealing directly with the titles in question we might point to two facts which render this thesis not merely improbable, but incredible, 1st. No known Ethiopic version has been made directly from the Aramaic. 2st. The Book of Enoch, by its artificial division into five books, like the five books of the Pentateuch, the five books of the Psalms, the five Megilloth, the five books in Proverbs, in Ecclesiasticus, the five divisions in the Pirke Aboth, and the five books of the Maccabean wars by Jason of Cyrene (see Hawkins 2, Horae Synopticae, p. 164), was after its kind a carefully edited work in which the fragments of a literature were put together with just as much fitness and insight as that of the Proverbs or the Pirke Aboth. This five-fold division was thus a well-known Jewish device, and, since according to the use of the book made by the N.T. writers it existed in its completed form in the first half of the first century A.D., if not nearly a century earlier, we cannot understand how an Ethiopic translator in the sixth or seventh century A.D. could have used the Greek version for the four books of Enoch, i-xxxvi, lxxii-lxxxii, lxxxiii-xc, xc-cviii, and an Aramaic for the fifth, i. e. the Parables, xxxvii-lxxi. It is very probable that the entire book was translated early in the first century of the Christian era into Greek. That the Semitic original was early lost is to be inferred from the fact that no evidence of any kind testifies to its existence after the birth of Christianity, whereas multitudinous evidence attests the existence of the Greek version.

We may, therefore, safely relegate to the limbo of impossibilities the hypothesis that chapters xxxvii-lxxi of the Ethiopic version were translated directly from the Aramaic.

We have now to consider what Schmidt terms 'the most convincing evidence of an Aramaic original ', i.e. the Ethiopic translations of the term 'Son of Man'. The Ethiopic translation was made, as we have just seen, from the Greek. Hence whatever explanation we give of the three forms must be justified by a Greek retranslation. This fact at once discounts any attempt to find a Greek prototype for 'eguala 'emahejaw 'offspring of the mother of the living'. This Ethiopic phrase is used indifferently as a rendering of ἄνθρωπος, υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου, ἄνθρωποι, υἱοὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἀνὴρ. And the full form walda 'eguala 'emahejaw = υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου in Dan. vii. 13, Ps. lxxix. 18, in Ezekiel about ninety times, Rev. i. 13, xiv. 14, and in the Gospels always = ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. In itself the Ethiopic phrase can mean 'son of man' or 'the Son of Man'. But if the translator wished to make it clear that the latter title was used, he could do so by prefixing a demonstrative pronoun as a rendering of the Greek article ὁ. This is done in every instance in the Parables save three. In the course of eight verses in lxxxix. 42-9 the Greek article is so rendered eleven times.

Let us now examine the other two titles walda sab'e and walda b'esi. sab'e distinctively = ἄνθρωπος (though in a few cases it = ἀνὴρ). Thus walda sab'e = υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου. It can also = ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, but to make this unmistakable the translator could prefix the demonstrative pronoun as the equivalent of ὁ.

Next comes walda b'esi. b'esi = ἀνὴρ generally, but as Dillmann (Lex. 519) puts it, it stands creberrime for ἄνθρωπος. In fact in the Ethiopic Version of our book it is used as a rendering of ἄνθρωπος in i. 2, xv. i. If more of the Greek version had survived we should no doubt find many other instances.

The result of the above examination comes to this. The above three renderings do not presuppose three different forms in the Greek. They most probably presuppose merely one, i.e. ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, but walda b'esi may presuppose ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνδρὸς. But I think the latter improbable. In lxii. 5 ; lxix. 29 (bis) ; lxxi. 14 b'esi may be a rendering of ἀνθρώπου as in i. 2 ; xv. i.

This change of rendering may seem surprising, but we have a perfect parallel in the Curetonian and Sinaitic versions of the Syriac N.T.¹ Thus whereas in the Peshitto b'reh de-nasa ( ברה דאנשא ) occurs uniformly as a rendering of ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, in the Curetonian version we have b'reh de-gabra ( ברה דגברא ) in Luke vii. 34; ix. 26 ; xxii. 48, and in the Sinaitic version b'reh de-gabra in Mark viii. 38 ; Luke vii. 34 ; John xiii. 31, and elsewhere in both these versions b'reh de-nasa. In the Palestinian Lectionary there is still another way of rendering the phrase, but this does not concern us here. We have, however, learnt from these versions that differences in the manner of rendering the title 'Son of Man' in these versions does not imply any difference in the original Greek. Similarly we conclude that the three renderings of this title in the Parables do not presuppose corresponding variations in the Greek, but are due to the translator.

If, then, these variations in the Parables are due to the translator or translators it follows that these translators were Aramaic-speaking Jews, since the phrases walda b'esi and walda sab'e are respectively equivalents of b'reh de gabra and b'reh de-nasa.'²

1 See Schmidt in Encyc. Bibl. iv. 4714.
2 The Aramaisms in the Ethiopic version of the O.T, are probably due to Aramaean missionaries.

On the above grounds we conclude that ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου stood in all cases in the Greek version of the [176] Parables.1 That this Greek phrase represents the Hebrew בךהאדם , we shall further conclude from the evidence given in the next section.

...

1 There is just a possibility that two forms stood in the Greek version, i.e. ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου and ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνδρὸς, and that these were due to the translators, who in this case also would be Aramaic-speaking Jews, but this is highly improbable.

FWIW,

Tertullian De Cultu Fem. i.3 refers to Tertullian's defense of the Book of Enoch in On the Apparel of Women: "But since Enoch in the same Scripture [i.e., the Book of Enoch in the form known to Tertullian] has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; ... By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, just like all the other (portions) nearly which tell of Christ."

Origen Contra Celsum v.52 refers to Against Celsus book 5, chapter 52, where Origen quotes Celsus: "and [they, i.e. the angels] were cast under the earth and punished with chains, and that from this source originate the warm springs, which are their tears."

ἀνὴρ = (a) man
ἄνθρωπος = (a) man/human being
ἄνθρωποι = men/human beings
οἱ ἄνθρωποι = the men
υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου = (a) son of (a) man/human being
υἱοὶ ἀνθρώπων sons of men/human beings/mankind
οἱ υἱοὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων = the sons of (the) men
ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνδρὸς = the son of (the) man
ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου = the son of (the) man/human being

בר נשא = bar nasha' = son of man/human being
ברה דאנשא = b'reh de-nasa = son of the man/human being
ברה דגברא = b'reh de-gabra = son of the particular man

Be aware that I have formatted the hell out of this extract, and hopefully have rendered the Hebrew/Aramaic words correctly. I am a bad man ... baaaaad!

DCH

DCH

Cesc

I've been wondering about the possibility of it being a qualitative genitive (or whatever it's called), i.e. "the human son", in relation to "the Father". God's human son. Don't know if anyone have said anything about this?

DCHindley

In my feeble attempts to understand any meaning the Ethiopic translator(s) and or editors may have intended by their choice of the Ethiopic words walda sab'e, walda b'esi or walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw for whatever words appeared in the original Aramaic original or Greek translation before him/her/them, when I ran across the text you indicate was that of Knibb (1978).

So I proceeded to match the Ethiopic words Charles said were in the Ethiopic translation, and which he had translated as "Son of Man" or "son of man," with the translation of Knibb, I get the following (FWIW, I was forced to pare down the text - I assume you included so much in order to preserve context - to the bare essentials, and added chapter 60:1-10, where Enoch himself is called a "son of man" - because I too am concerned about context):

Knibb	Charles
46.1. I And there I saw one who had a head of days, and his head (was) white like wool; and with him (there was) another, whose face had the appearance of a man, and his face (was) full of grace, like one of the holy angels. 2 And I asked one of the holy angels who went with me, and showed me all the secrets, about that Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days. 3 And he answered me and said to me: 'This is the Son of Man who has righteousness, and with whom righteousness dwells; he will reveal all the treasures of that which is secret, for the Lord of Spirits has chosen him, and through uprightness his lot has surpassed all before the Lord of Spirits for ever. 4 And this Son of Man whom you have seen will rouse the kings and the powerful from their resting-places, and the strong from their thrones, and will loose the reins of the strong, and will break the teeth of the sinners.	46:1 And there I saw One who had a head of days, And His head was white like wool, And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man, And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels. 2 And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that Son of Man (walda sab'e), who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days ? 3 And he answered and said unto me: This is the Son of Man (walda sab'e) who hath righteousness, With whom dwelleth righteousness, And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden, Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him, And whose lot hath the pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever. 4 And this Son of Man (walda sab'e) whom thou hast seen Shall raise up the kings and the mighty from their seats, [[And the strong from their thrones]] And shall loosen the reins of the strong, And break the teeth of the sinners.
48.1. I And in that place I saw an inexhaustible spring of righteousness, and many springs of wisdom surrounded it, and all the thirsty drank from them and were filled with wisdom, and their dwelling (was) with the righteous and the holy and the chosen. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named in the presence of the Lord of Spirits, and his name (was named) before the Head of Days. 3 Even before the sun and the constellations were created, before the stars of heaven were made, his name was named before the Lord of Spirits.	48:1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: . And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man (walda sab'e) was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
60.1 In the fiftieth year, in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month of the life of Enoch. In that parable, I saw how the Heaven of Heavens was shaken violently, and the Host of the Most High and the Angels, a thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, were extremelydisturbed. 2 And then I saw the Head of Days sitting on the throne of his glory and the Angels and righteous were sitting around him. ... 10 And he said to me: “Son of man, you here wish to know what is secret.”	60:1 In the year 500, in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the life of Enoch. In that Parable I saw how a mighty quaking made the heaven of heavens to quake, and the host of the Most High, and the angels, a thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, were disquieted with a great disquiet. 2 And the Head of Days sat on the throne of His glory, and the angels and the righteous stood around Him. ... 10 And he said to me: 'Thou son of man (walda sab'e), herein thou dost seek to know what is hidden.'
62.1. I And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell upon the earth, and said: 'Open your eyes, and raise your horns, if you are able to acknowledge the Chosen One.' 2 And the Lord of Spirits sat on the throne of his glory, and the spirit of righteousness was poured out on him, and the word of his mouth kills all the sinners and all the lawless, and they are destroyed before him. 3 And on that day all the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who possess the earth, will stand up; and they will see and recognize how he sits on the throne of his glory, and the righteous are judged in righteousness before him, and no idle word is spoken before him. 4 And pain will come upon them as (upon) a woman in labour for whom giving birth is difficult, when her child enters the mouth of the womb, and she has difficulty in giving birth. 5 And one half of them will look at the other, and they will be terrified, and will cast down their faces, and pain will take hold of them, when they see that Son of a Woman [!!!] sitting on the throne of his glory, 6 And the mighty kings, and all those who possess the earth, will praise and bless and exalt him who rules everything which is hidden. 7 For from the beginning the Son of Man was hidden, and the Most High kept him in the presence of his power, and revealed him (only) to the chosen; 8 and the community of the holy and the chosen will be sown, and all the chosen will stand before him on that day. 9 And all the mighty kings, and the exalted, and those who rule the dry ground, will fall down before him on their faces and worship; and they will set their hope upon that Son of Man, and will entreat him, and will petition for mercy from him. 10 But that Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces. ... 13 And the righteous and the chosen will be saved on that day, and they will never see the face of the sinners and the lawless from then on. 14 And the Lord of Spirits will remain over them, and with that Son of Man they will dwell, and eat, and lie down, and rise up for ever and ever. ...	62:1 And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, and said: 'Open your eyes and lift up your horns if ye are able to recognize the Elect One.' 2 And the Lord of Spirits seated him on the throne of His glory, And the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him, And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners, And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face. 3 And there shall stand up in that day all the kings and the mighty, And the exalted and those who hold the earth, And they shall see and recognize How he sits on the throne of his glory, And righteousness is judged before him, And no lying word is spoken before him. 4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail, [[And she has pain in bringing forth]] When her child enters the mouth of the womb, And she has pain in bringing forth. 5 And one portion of them shall look on the other, And they shall be terrified, And they shall be downcast of countenance, And pain shall seize them, When they see that Son of Man (walda b'esi) Sitting on the throne of his glory. 6 And the kings and the mighty and all who possess the earth shall bless and glorify and extol him who rules over all, who was hidden. 7 For from the beginning the Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw) was hidden, And the Most High preserved him in the presence of His might, And revealed him to the elect. 8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown, And all the elect shall stand before him on that day. 9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth Shall fall down before him on their faces, And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw), And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands. 10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them That they shall hastily go forth from His presence, And their faces shall be filled with shame, And the darkness grow deeper on their faces. ... 13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day, And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous. 14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them, And with that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw) shall they eat And lie down and rise up for ever and ever. ...
63.1. I In those days the mighty kings who possess the dry ground will entreat the angels of his punishment to whom they have been handed over that they might give them a little respite, and that they might fall down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sin before him. ... 11 And after this their faces will be filled with darkness and shame before that Son of Man, and they will be driven from before him, and the sword will dwell among them before him. 12 And thus says the Lord of Spirits: 'This is the law and the judgement for the mighty and the kings and the exalted, and for those who possess the dry ground, before the Lord of Spirits.'	63:1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. ... 11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness And shame before that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw), And they shall be driven from his presence, And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst. 12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: 'This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'
69.26. And they had great joy, and they blessed and praised and exalted because the name of that Son of Man had been revealed to them. 27 And he sat on the throne of his glory, and the whole judgement was given to the Son of Man, and he will cause the sinners to pass away and be destroyed from the face of the earth. 28 And those who led astray the world will be bound in chains, and will be shut up in the assembly-place of their destruction, and all their works will pass away from the face of the earth: 29 And from then on there will be nothing corruptible, for that Son of Man has appeared and has sat on the throne of his glory, and everything evil will pass away and go from before him; and the word of that Son of Man will be strong before the Lord of Spirits. This is the third parable of Enoch.	69: 26 And there was great joy amongst them, And they blessed and glorified and extolled Because the name of that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw) had been revealed unto them. 27 And he sat on the throne of his glory, And the sum of judgement was given unto the Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw), And he caused the sinners to pass away and be destroyed from off the face of the earth, And those who have led the world astray. 28 With chains shall they be bound, And in their assemblage-place of destruction shall they be imprisoned, And all their works vanish from the face of the earth. 29 And from henceforth there shall be nothing corruptible; For that Son of Man (walda b'esi) has appeared, And has seated himself on the throne of his glory, And all evil shall pass away before his face, And the word of that Son of Man (walda b'esi) shall go forth And be strong before the Lord of Spirits. This is the third Parable of Enoch.
70.1. I And it came to pass after this (that), while he was living, his name was lifted from those who dwell upon the dry ground to the presence of that Son of Man and to the presence of the Lord of Spirits.	70:1 And it came to pass after this that his name during his lifetime was raised aloft to that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw) and to the Lord of Spirits from amongst those who dwell on the earth.
71.1. I And it came to pass after this that my spirit was carried off, and it went up into the heavens. ... 14 And that angel came to me, and greeted me with his voice, and said to me: 'You are the Son of Man who was born to righteousness, and righteousness remains over you, and the righteousness of the Head of Days will not leave you.' 15 And he said to me: 'He proclaims peace to you in the name of the world which is to come, for from there peace has come out from the creation of the world; and so you will have it for ever and for ever and ever. 71. 16 And all . . . will walk according to your way, inasmuch as righteousness will never leave you; with you will be their dwelling, and with you their lot, and they will not be separated from you, for ever and for ever and ever. 17 And so there will be length of days with that Son of Man, and the righteous will have peace, and the righteous will have an upright way, in the name of the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.'	71:1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated And it ascended into the heavens: ... 14 And he (i.e. the angel) came to me and greeted me with His voice, and said unto me: 'This is the Son of Man (walda b'esi) who is born unto righteousness, And righteousness abides over him, And the righteousness of the Head of Days forsakes him not.' 15 And he said unto me: 'He proclaims unto thee peace in the name of the world to come; For from hence has proceeded peace since the creation of the world, And so shall it be unto thee for ever and for ever and ever. 16 And all shall walk in his ways since righteousness never forsaketh him: With him will be their dwelling-places, and with him their heritage, And they shall not be separated from him for ever and ever and ever. 17 And so there shall be length of days with that Son of Man (walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw), And the righteous shall have peace and an upright way In the name of the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.'

I noticed that Knibb (or the editor of whatever book that might have republished Knibb's work with "liberties," such as the one by Andy McCracken), has translated what Charles says was walda b'esi in 62:5 as "son of a woman." Perhaps this was done to resonate with vs 4, where "labor pains" will overcome the "kings and the mighty and the exalted ... who possess the earth" when the "Chosen One" will pronounce judgment on them when the "spirit of righteousness" is poured on him by the Lord of Spirits when the LoS sits on his throne. This is apparently due to a textual variant mentioned by Charles in the footnote to vs 62:5: "Son of Man a-w, 'Son of the woman' m,β. See xlvi. 2 (note)". The note to 46:2 referred to above is "2. ... that Son of Man. Cf. xlvi. 4, xlviii. 2, lxii. 9, 14, lxiii. 11, lxix. 26, 27, lxx. 1, lxxi. 1, in all of which passages the demonstrative [pronoun, which in English is translated 'that' or 'this'] occurs; it is missing only in Ixii. 7. But, ‘that’ and ‘this’ in our [Ethiopic] translator are usually renderings of the Greek article, and so here. Thus in Enoch this title is the distinct designation of the personal Messiah, and the Greek equivalent must have been ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου and not υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου."

A list of the relevant passages follows:

walda sab'e (son of man/human being)
xlvi. 2, 3, 4 (46:2, 3, 4)
xlviii. 2 (48:2)
lx. 10 (60:10 )

walda b'esi (son of (a specific) man)
lxii. 5 (62:5)
lxix. 29a,b (69:29a, 29b)
lxxi. 14 (71:14)

walda 'eguala 'ema hejaw (son of the offspring of the mother of the living)*
lxii. 7, 9, 14 (62:7, 9, 14)
lxiii. 11 (63:11)
lxix. 26, 27 (69:26, 27)
lxx. 1 (70:1)
lxxi. 17 (71:17)

*The Ethiopic NT uses the phrase 'eguala 'emahejaw (offspring of the mother of the living)
Dan vii. 13 (7:13)
Psa lxxix. 18 (79:18)
Eze (90 times)
Rev i. 13 (1:13)
Rev xiv. 14 (14:14)
Gospels (exclusively for ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου = the son of the man)

DCH

Solo

Hi Stephan,
I have come to believe that the second group, was the creation of the writer of Mark's gospel, to consciously conflate the coming of Lord Jesus of Paul and the Danielic-Enochian apocalyptic figure. Note that in Mark 13:26-27 the SoM performs essentially the same "rapture" operation as Paul's Lord in 1 Th 4:16:17. Paul's passage seems clearly inspired by Daniel but he and Mark after him add the collection of the faithful from the earth.

Matthew (and Luke after him, Mt 24:30-31, Lk 21:27-28) dropped the evacuation of the faithful from the proceedings, a clear sign that neither of their communities held onto the spiritual resurrection schema of Paul.

Best,
Jiri

Diogenes the Cynic

That's basically his whole thesis in Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium He argues in that whole book that Jesus thought the "son of man" was somebody else, not himself (Ehrman's theory is that it was intended as an elliptical, but not titular reference to Daniel) and that Jesus thought he could bring this figure down through his attack on the Temple.