FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Philosophy & Religious Studies > History of Abrahamic Religions & Related Texts
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 01:23 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default RM Price 2009 review of David Trobisch's "First Edition of the New Testament"

.
in 2009 Robert M Price provided an interesting review of David Trobisch's The First Edition of the New Testament, Oxford University Press (2000).

In doing so Price also makes reference to a Trobisch 2007 paper called “Who Published the Christian Bible?” delivered at the January 2007 “Scripture and Skepticism” conference (Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion).

Some excerpts:
Quote:
Though this book has been out for a few years now, I am reviewing it here and now because more recent research by the same author, the ingenious David Trobisch, has carried the original thesis a significant step further, making explicit a crucial point left implicit in the original. ...

Much of Trobisch’s case rests on simple consideration of New Testament (and even Christian Greek Old Testament) manuscripts. He has delineated a paradigm that makes good, inductive sense of many hitherto-puzzling bits of evidence. ...

The sharp-eyed Trobisch accepts the thinking of John Knox (Marcion and the New Testament, 1942) and Hans von Campenhausen (The Formation of the Christian Bible, 1968) that the New Testament in the form we have it is largely a counterstrike against the Marcionite Sputnik: already a counter-testament to Marcion’s Apostolicon. ...

Trobisch makes Polycarp the editor and publisher of the Christian Bible. And he has more reasons still. We would need someone with a definite antipathy toward Marcion and a desire to co-opt his churches and his scriptures for Catholicism. Polycarp would fit the role nicely. We also need someone who would have a reason for juxtaposing John and the Synoptics. Again: Polycarp ...

Polycarp may even have, so to speak, signed his work. Trobisch notes how 2 Timothy 4 lists many names familiar from Acts and earlier Pauline Epistles, except for two. ...

All right, then may I suggest that Polycarp has inserted himself into John 15:5, too? “He who abides in me, and I in him, the same shall bring forth much fruit .. ”? And then, as Alvin Boyd Kuhn and, more recently, Stephen Hermann Huller have suggested, mustn’t the Theophilus to whom Luke and Acts are addressed be Bishop of Theophilus of Antioch, Polycarp’s ally?

I should say that David Trobisch’s The First Edition of the New Testament together with his “Who Published the New Testament?” provide an ideal example of a theoretical, “Kuhnian” paradigm, a theoretical framework which, when laid over the evidence like a transparency, reveals a whole new way of making sense of the hitherto-disparate data. I’m sold.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.c...isch_first.htm
.
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 06:55 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

You see what kind of jackasses he's quoting now. That's it. I won't read another Price book.
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:09 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor
Posts: 4,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
You see what kind of jackasses he's quoting now. That's it. I won't read another Price book.
Oh? Please do tell. At least we could learn from what Trobisch gets terribly wrong.
Peter Kirby is online now   Edit/Delete Message
Old 10-02-2013, 09:20 PM   #4
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kirby View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
You see what kind of jackasses he's quoting now. That's it. I won't read another Price book.
Oh? Please do tell. At least we could learn from what Trobisch gets terribly wrong.
Price seems to have sunk so far that he has quoted someone called Stephan Herman Huller. What is the world coming to?? Jackasses indeed.
spin is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:42 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

People don't seem to have a sense of humor around here.
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:27 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

ok, Jackasses. I'm intrigued they propose Polycarp was the [primary] editor and [first] publisher of the NT

ie. proposing an early-mid 2nd C NT.


I'm also intrigued, by the references to Marcionite 'Sputnik' and Marcion’s Apostolicon as if two different things. Can someone elaborate?

Cheers.
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

Because of Polycarp's relationship with Irenaeus and Irenaeus being the first person to cite the fourfold canon.
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

Trobisch argues that the last line in John is not about John but the whole four gospels because they were established as one gospel set.
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
Trobisch argues that the last line in John is not about John but the whole four gospels because they were established as one gospel set.
John 21:25 ??
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

what about the references to Marcionite 'Sputnik' and Marcion’s Apostolicon as if two different things?
MrMacSon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:42 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.