John Hancock

This is an Op. Ed. on this article . Geeze can you find your knees?

Martin Buber

August Spies

Your view of the French Revolution's effect on capitalism clearly shows me that you are operating from the tired old Marxist Dialectical Materialism fantasy view of history.

haha actually im basically quoting my Western Civ teacher (who was very much not a marxist) exactly. The French revolution is the birthplace of modern ideology in europe (both right and left). yada yada. This is what they teach im my very much capitalist and democratic college. How about you show some real argument that this isn't so?

Also, your definition of "democratic"

i gave a definition of democratic?

Since their defeat in WW2 ,they have been obnoxious up-starts and a pain in the ass.

I gave you a list of reasons why France should be a world power, and your response is just they are "a pain in the ass". Hmm maybe this debate isn't worth the time.

Pin me on my lack of Foucault all you want,


so you rant against some guy you haven't even read

but answer my general point about the academic nonsense which came from post-modernism which derived some of it ideologies from him.

as other posters pointed out, you have made no argument. There is no "point" to argue against. You merely stated some random claims which were false (such as Foucault was a de-constructualist). what damage have they done? How has post-modernism been stopped?

--------------------
Anyway, you side stepped my point, which was that the important philisiophoical work has been done in France and Germany. You may disagree with it, but it doesnt change the fact that France has had a huge impact on philosophy and intellectual thought.

sullster

I will soon be reading, "The History of Sexuality," by Foucault. Now there is a subject which the French are the premier practitioners of. I will readily admit that no other nation on earth exhibits such depth of knowledge on this philosophical area.

I did forget about Franco-American spaghetti, yet the Franco referred to may have been Generillissimo Franco of Spain.


I can't stand smilies. They do not constitute arguments.


Post-modernism and de-constructionism are real currents of thought. They would be best discussed in the Philosophy section, admittedly.

I will gladly criticise the West and the US. We are not above criticism and indeed have done many bad deeds. What I see in the posting of many here is a total black and white viewpoint which sees all of the West as a cesspool of evil. To me that is similar to the view of the religious fundies.

I see little difference between leftist extremists and fundies.

August Spies

I can't stand one-liner rhetoric.

Sullster, you have not heard any counter-arguments from us because YOU HAVE NOT MADE ANY ARGUMENTS. Please show us how
1. French and German philosophy is not the most important modern philosophy (which was the original claim by me)
2. How "post-modernism" has been damaging to the west
3. How "we" have saved ourselves from post-modern thought.
4. What European powers more deserve power than France (meaning, why do you keep claiming France is not a real power given all the thigns listed above)

~Hugo

What I see in the posting of many here is a total black and white viewpoint which sees all of the West as a cesspool of evil.

where? ill I see is strawmen attacks by you.

John Hancock

Anyone actually (aside from myself) read USA OUI! BUSH NON!? All this flap's crap.

Martin Buber

sullster

[QUOTE]Originally posted by August Spies
[B]I can't stand one-liner rhetoric.

Sullster, you have not heard any counter-arguments from us because YOU HAVE NOT MADE ANY ARGUMENTS. Please show us how
1. French and German philosophy is not the most important modern philosophy (which was the original claim by me)
2. How "post-modernism" has been damaging to the west
3. How "we" have saved ourselves from post-modern thought.
4. What European powers more deserve power than France (meaning, why do you keep claiming France is not a real power given all the thigns listed above)

~Hugo

What I see in the posting of many here is a total black and white viewpoint which sees all of the West as a cesspool of evil.


It is funny that you can't stand what you do so well.

1. I don't dispute that German and French philosophy is in the forefront.
2. It has made attacks on the foundations of science by claiming that its knowlege is relative and subjective.
3. "We" are those who reject the influences of post-modernism in ideological movements such as radical feminism.
4. France is a power, but so what.


Tell me how my one-liner straw man statements are inferior to your smilie face statements, which you do so well.

August Spies

1. okay well that was my original statement, why the random tangent against foucault? (who you haven't read).
2. as was said by hugo "Perhaps a cursory reading of these philosophers you dismiss would help you understand why bashing straw men only makes you appear foolish?"
3. So anti-post modernists have gotten rid of post modern thinking? This doesnt' come as a surprise. I thought you meant that the intellectual establishments had gotten rid of it, which I thought was an odd comment since it is now being taught in schools.
4. so what? I dunno, it was you who said france was old history.

I dont' make smiley face statements. I add, like plenty of posters here, smiley faces into a post. Sorrry if that offends you. Yes, I did reply once with only a laughing face... but I felt the subject (american revolution) was so off subject that it would be bad to continue talking about it. But to be short, the American revoltion was opposed to democracy. Its leaderds, or our forefathers, said this repeatedly. The final outcrop of the revolution, the constitution, was made by a group of rich white men who had NO authority to make it and who coerced or forced the other memebers who disagreed with the constitution to amend it. Again amend it when they had no authority to do so. So dont' pretend it was demcratic. The French at least gave women some rights.

Hugo Holbling

I'm still keen to learn how this has been "damaging to the West", even supposing your caricature of postmodernism to be accurate. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to take your objections to the philosophy forum, where i hope August will join us?

That would leave this thread to return back on-topic, thus placating Martin...

Sabine Grant

I must ask at this point how long have you actualy lived in France, immersed yourself into the language, culture, political climate, people etc....?
And which particular existentialists are you refering to? which of their works? I am quite interested....