Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jinto · 05-11-2003, 12:45 AM

Better idea: label the button "start rapture" and wait for a theist to push the button.

CanoeMan · 05-11-2003, 05:05 AM

B, definitivly B. The deaths of millions of people is a small price to pay to save the world. And the paradise that comes with option B is one I would gladly kill for.
IMO, it would be immoral NOT to push the button, since not only would you be indirectly responsible for all those who died in the religious wars, you would also be responsible for the "devolution" of the our species as well. You'd cause more harm than good by not pushing the button.

Rousseau_CHN · 05-11-2003, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Human beings become truly rational animals. Conflicts are solved through reason and cooperation. Free, critical thinking becomes the norm, creating generation after generation of children who, through their collective pursuit of knowledge, produce mind-boggling advances in science which improve the quality of life tremendously through the drastic reduction of hunger and disease, as well as the restoration of our natural environment. People everywhere thrive, and live to their fullest potential in a utopian paradise called Earth.
What's the catch?
You have to press this "magic button". Pressing this button will vaporize every religious person on the face of the planet. The murder of billions of people will be on your conscience till the day you die.

Absurd! Impossible! I refuse to choose between the two. I refuse to believe that "the end justifies the means."

I am more likely to believe that the means leads to its ineveitable end.

What do I mean by that? I remember my student council days. Like all practicing democracy, we have to face students apathy. One council member suggested that we threaten them with suspension to force them to participate.

At first I thought it was a good joke. Suddenly, one by one, they seem to come into an agreement. Fortunately, the meeting went nowhere; the council went nowhere.

You can't build democracy with fascist method, in the same way, that you cannot build a rational world with murder.

Furthermore:

Quote:

With the information given, and having to choose ONLY "A" or ONLY "B", what would you do?

If I were confronted with such proposition. My first reaction is not to choose which is better: a or b. My first reaction is who the hell puts the proposition before me. Must I trust him?

Why should I believe that this is the only case (a or b)---because he said so

.

Do I look gullible to you?

echoes · 05-12-2003, 02:19 PM

You might feel guilt for pushing the button and killing billions. But you would be equally responsible for the death and suffering caused by not pushing the button.

You can talk about some third possibility, but refusing to pick is just a cop-out. Doing so defeats the purpose of the thought experiment; obviously neither choice is ideal.

That said, I choose pushing the button because it is better for humans in the long run. The fact that I wouldn't be killed by religious fanatics is nice too.

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05-11-2003, 12:45 AM	#11
Jinto Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 957	Better idea: label the button "start rapture" and wait for a theist to push the button.

05-11-2003, 05:05 AM	#12
CanoeMan Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: out for some Rest 'n Relaxation Posts: 3,106	B, definitivly B. The deaths of millions of people is a small price to pay to save the world. And the paradise that comes with option B is one I would gladly kill for. IMO, it would be immoral NOT to push the button, since not only would you be indirectly responsible for all those who died in the religious wars, you would also be responsible for the "devolution" of the our species as well. You'd cause more harm than good by not pushing the button.

05-12-2003, 02:19 PM	#14
echoes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: PUERTO RICO Posts: 750	You might feel guilt for pushing the button and killing billions. But you would be equally responsible for the death and suffering caused by not pushing the button. You can talk about some third possibility, but refusing to pick is just a cop-out. Doing so defeats the purpose of the thought experiment; obviously neither choice is ideal. That said, I choose pushing the button because it is better for humans in the long run. The fact that I wouldn't be killed by religious fanatics is nice too.

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