Freethought & Rationalism Archive

joedad · 06-30-2003, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Evangelion:
In the present context, the "rule" is defined as the fact that the majority of Christians (a) support the Jewish claim to their land, (b) usually advance some form of Biblical evidence as proof of same, and (c) agree that the Holocaust definitely occurred.

Most christians I know are pleased with the Israeli state and do not support the totality of Jewish land claims, and obviously accept the holocaust as historical fact. Does that prove anything?

What would constitute disproof of a rule in which both the norm and the exception prove the same rule?

joe

TomboyMom · 06-30-2003, 09:19 AM

FPY:

You have personally insulted me and my beloved and deceased mother, by in effect calling her a liar. I have reported this to the bugs and complaints forum. I request a personal apology and retraction from you.

BTW, she wasn't. And as Tallullah said, how do you explain the number tattooed on her wrist?

Rene Rosechild
daughter of Rosalie Nathans of Amsterdam
survivor of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen

livius drusus · 06-30-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nogods4me
A) Please provide evidence of your claim of the atheism of the deniers. All the literature I have seen ties "holocaust denial" into a grand conspiracy theory concerning zionism and on occaision the impure races and how they are trying to take the country and the world away from the worthy and god loving white man.

As I said above, the "scholarly" sources such as the IHR make no religious claims whatsoever even though they are ideologically racist. They are the front lines and public face of Holocaust denial, not the Sword of God.

-FPY- · 06-30-2003, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan
Francis Parker Yockey wrote one really important work, Imperium, a major intellectual work of the Far Right. It is, as other posters have guessed, largely trash, full of errors, shallow thinking, and overwrought Germanic historical nonsense. I have a copy at home, and when I get there tomorrow I'll put up some choice excerpts here. I urge everyone who has the chance to read it, for it is largely unknown, but highly influential.

So what's actually wrong with it? Sorry to get side-tracked here, but why don't you explain exactly why you don't like the book? Anyway, why do you have a copy? It's notoriously hard to get hold of.

-FPY- · 06-30-2003, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomboyMom
FPY:

You have personally insulted me and my beloved and deceased mother, by in effect calling her a liar. I have reported this to the bugs and complaints forum. I request a personal apology and retraction from you.

BTW, she wasn't. And as Tallullah said, how do you explain the number tattooed on her wrist?

Rene Rosechild
daughter of Rosalie Nathans of Amsterdam
survivor of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen

I did not call your mother a liar. I said she could be a liar. I apologise for any distress this may have caused you. Of course she was not a liar. Some people are, however.

RED DAVE · 06-30-2003, 09:53 AM

To fpy

How come you use the initials of a man who considered Hitler the hero of World War II?

RED DAVE

Arken · 06-30-2003, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by -FPY-
I did not call your mother a liar. I said she could be a liar.

"I didn't say you were a pedophile. I said you might be a pedophile."

seebs · 06-30-2003, 10:19 AM

I just have to say, holocaust denial is really weird to me. Denying that it happened requires such heroic efforts at suppressing unwanted reality, and I've never understood *why*. Is it hatred of Jews? Is it fear of admitting that evil exists? What *motivates* these people?

Of course it happened. I talked to a nice Danish guy who was in a concentration camp for a few years because the SS caught him conspiring against their government. He saw people marched into buildings, and ashes shoveled out.

Trying to deny it is just unhealthy.

Evangelion · 06-30-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

A) Please provide evidence of your claim of the atheism of the deniers.

I refer you to livius drusius' post.

Quote:

All the literature I have seen ties "holocaust denial" into a grand conspiracy theory concerning zionism and on occaision the impure races and how they are trying to take the country and the world away from the worthy and god loving white man.

Then you haven't read very far.

Quote:

B) of course it is a small example. holocaust deniers themselves are a small but vocal group

The point I am making is that so-called "Christian" Holocaust deniers are not representative of the mainstream Christian view on this subject.

Quote:

C) exceptions do not prove rules, they invalidate them. It cannot be a rule if there are exceptions to it.

Nonsense. The exception exists by virtue of the rule. That is the point.

In the words of Cicero:

If the exception makes such an action unlawful, where there is no exception the action must necessarily be lawful.

(Quod si exceptio facit ne liceat, ubi necesse est licere.)

Evangelion · 06-30-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Correct. nogods4me's generalization about denier christianity was as erroneous as yours about denier atheism. Then again, I'm sure you chose that deliberate provocation as a means of supporting your point.

Absolutely.

Thankyou for reading me correctly.

06-30-2003, 09:19 AM	#112
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	apology FPY: You have personally insulted me and my beloved and deceased mother, by in effect calling her a liar. I have reported this to the bugs and complaints forum. I request a personal apology and retraction from you. BTW, she wasn't. And as Tallullah said, how do you explain the number tattooed on her wrist? Rene Rosechild daughter of Rosalie Nathans of Amsterdam survivor of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen

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06-30-2003, 09:53 AM	#116
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	To fpy How come you use the initials of a man who considered Hitler the hero of World War II? RED DAVE

06-30-2003, 10:19 AM	#118
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	I just have to say, holocaust denial is really weird to me. Denying that it happened requires such heroic efforts at suppressing unwanted reality, and I've never understood why. Is it hatred of Jews? Is it fear of admitting that evil exists? What motivates these people? Of course it happened. I talked to a nice Danish guy who was in a concentration camp for a few years because the SS caught him conspiring against their government. He saw people marched into buildings, and ashes shoveled out. Trying to deny it is just unhealthy.

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