Kvalhion

I really have to wonder why focusing on technicalities is so vital to the idea of belief in a god. For one thing, your examples of faith are not very good if you mean to compare them to faith in a supernatural being. Your examples are based upon past performance and a defined standard, neither of which is applicable to mythical sky faeries. If you could give even one concrete evidence of the supernatural, you would be the first. With a profound lack of the supernatural, what exactly inspires faith in its existence?

The technicality of being unable to conclusively show for or against the existence of some concept at some point becomes irrelevant. You can smugly twist the principles of atheism all you want; this doesn't change the fact that because there is simply no compelling reason to accept the existence of the supernatural, there is no compelling reason to live as if the supernatural existed.

Of course, this same principle applies to all things the mind can conjure. There is no compelling reason to believe invisible pink unicorns exist, invisible siblings exist, leprechauns exist, etc; therefore there is no reason to act as if they existed by constructing shrines and groveling on our knees every so often.

From your perspective, having assumed one of these mythical creatures does indeed exist, you can certainly misconstrue things to say that I deny whatever it is you believe in. However I see this as your problem, not mine.

Philosoft

What does this mean? Is it possible for me to have an opinion that I don't have faith in?

PerhapsItsTruth

Okay, evidence for the existence of the supernatural. Well then, let’s use some logic and reason here. Say my friend's mother has a terrible heart problem (true story), so bad, in fact, that one, she can't walk anywhere without immediately being out of breath, two, the doctors just tell her to get over it, she's going to die, nothing they can do. Well, my friend goes to church, is told to pray, and immediately after they pray, the heart problem disappears. They go in the next morning, no sign at all of any heart problem at all. So, by logic and reason, by any I know of, that is evidence. If you say it isn't, why?

-Perhaps

PerhapsItsTruth

It means that people don't read.

-Perhaps...

Zadok001

PerhapsItsTruth:

Once again. You skipped an earlier post that raised a very valid an important point. I repeated it for you. You ignored it a second time. I am now repeating this point a third time. Not responding this time begins to look like active avoidance of the issue.

What, EXACTLY, distinguishes your belief in God from belief in the all-present IPU that created the Universe last Thursday?

If you cannot present a reasonable answer to this question, you are left in an awkward position - You have no better reason to believe in God than to believe in the IPU. So why do you believe in God?

Answer: No rational reason.

Free Thinkr

Take out the part where you said your friend is told to go to church and pray, and insert "there was a meteor shower." Or perhaps "a full moon," or some other nonsense. It's a little thing called coincidence. Does it really make sense that god would spare your friend's mother's life while at the same time letting millions of children starve to death? Hey, maybe it's actually the children's starving to death that spared her life! Surely some child, somewhere on earth starved to death on the same date. I mean, religion in general, and not excluding christianity, is big on sacrafice. That has to be evindence, right?

:banghead:

Philosoft

Count that among my numerous character flaws, I suppose. In any case, is there any chance you're going to tell me what it means? I happen to think what you're trying to do is insert "faith" wherever you can, in an attempt to philosophically equalize theism and atheism. We can dedicate a new thread to explaining why this approach is incorrect, if you like.

PerhapsItsTruth

Oh, well that's easy to answer. Sorry, didn't notice it (whoops). No, the answer is this, God (Yahweh), has given more evidence to his existence than the ones you have mentioned. Not rational, you say? Well then, you haven't seen what I have, have you? I rest my case on that one. Defame all you want, do your worst, but considering that I was once an atheist myself and withheld the same mindset almost, I doubt you'll make any headway. That being said, I doubt you'll try, either.

-Perhaps...

PerhapsItsTruth

Or perhaps he's waiting on you to go over and feed them. For instead of blaming him on why they die, just blame yourself. After all, you're sitting here typing while they're over there starving. He did give us that freedom to make the choice...you know? Besides, if a starving child dies because we didn't give them food and then goes to heaven, I doubt the child, nor God, are going to make too much of a fuss except at those who failed to feed them while they were on earth, eh? And besides, just because he doesn't act in the way you want him to doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

-Perhaps...

PerhapsItsTruth

Prove to me that conincidence is actually a factual thing.

-Perhaps...

P.S. Could just be that god that you say doesn't exist, eh? After all, for the "open"(haha) minded person and free "thinker"(haha), that should be an always "open" possibility to "think" about...longer than just a few moments.