Evolutionist

ju'iblex, thats something i've never quite managed to understand. i've entered debates and conversations with numerous theists from numerous religions, and still the only answer i usually get is becuase they "know".

i mean, when i was a kid i used to believe in santa, but back then having presents suddenly appear under the tree on christmas morning was irrefutable evidence...

mike, self-righteous fundies annoy the hell out of me... especially when they get on their moral/spiritual high horse and begin talking down to me:

"you may have beaten me on all the most common/absurd pro-god arguments, but you are spiritually dead so i will pray for you"

andy_d

Question for ex-theists: do you think that being raised in a theist environment makes you more susceptable to developing a siege mentality to your atheism?

It occurs to me that you may well have friends and family who actively disapprove of your deconversion.

beth

I am an extheist. I was a fundamentalist Christian, charasmatic, but had more liberal views on certain things that often led other fundamentalists to hate. I suppose that I do know the little tricks to cause doubt and spark deconversion, but I have no interest in deconverting anyone. I understand how painful and traumatic that it can be.

I can see the good and bad in religion. I can tolerate it, but my insight helps me to point out some of the more absurd things that are believed. I can understand why people devote their lives to devotion and church, but I can also understand the pain that it can cause.

Because I prayed so much for others and my heart was broken for them, I accept their prayers when they say they pray. I understand the mentality. I also understand and respect the way people cling to their faith during tragedies, because my faith was all I had to cling to during some of my most traumatic experiences, although, I do think that a couple of the most recent ones helped to lead to my spiritual questioning and to my deconversion.

demoninho

I'm a lifeling atheist aswell and I can't fathom either, just can't. I'm almost convinced the theist are just "playing a game" and the more I have discussions with them the more it just seems like I big joke. They can't be serious can they!?

Mageth

That's an apt description of my situation. And yes, my situation has engendered a bit of a siege mentality to my atheism. So perhaps being raised in, and deconverting from, a theist environment does make one particularly susceptible to a siege mentality.

Mageth

I don't think most theists are just playing a game; I think they're really serious. I know I was. Remember that most theists were raised in their beliefs. For most theists, their entire worldview from day one on was molded with the religion of their parents at its core. So it's not a game for them; it's actually the way they think the world works. It's difficult to overcome a worldview that was indoctrinated in one as a child.

IMO, one has to have (or develop, or maybe adopt) a particular mindset (for lack of a better term) to overcome this inherited worldview. A questioning mind, a healthy dose of skepticism, a sense of independence, and maybe even a bit of rebelliousness seem to be necessary to make the jump from theism to non-theism.

demoninho

I know they do, I just find it very hard to believe. Their perception of the world must be completely different from mine, yet we all live in the same world.

Barcode

*concurs with Demoninho*

In some ways, I think I've been as naive as some theists I've encountered by assuming they can't possibly, as a thinking person believe some of the things they are going around espousing as absolute undeniable facts ... in the same way they fail to comprehend how someone doesn't believe in existential entities.

What seems obvious holes in their worldview to me, are things they invent convoluted explanations for and then look at you as if *you're* the idiotic one for failing to grasp their oh so profound and enlightened reasoning.

Mageth

A good book on the subject is Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things. If you're interested, make sure you get the latest edition that has the added chapter Why Smart People Believe Weird Things.

Pyrrho

Think about how children are suckered into believing in Santa Claus. And think about how children are easily fooled generally, and you will get the idea. The key, for most people, is getting them while young to believe the nonsense, and give them an emotional interest in the nonsense. Then, you'll have suckered most of them, probably for life.

Frankly, most of what most people believe is just stuff that was told to them. Although some people have examined some evidence for themselves, most people, for example, believe the world is roughly spherical simply because that is what they have been told.