Godless Dave

I suspect BlondeGoddess has been told the familiar lie that evolution is a religion, and that Darwin's Origin of Species is a critique of Christianity. Neither of those are true, but that's just one of the many lies BlondeGoddess was told that she's going to have to come to terms with. I don't envy her.

beth

To all of you who claimed I was never saved: I want to tell you I've prayed the sinner's prayer thousands of times with all of my heart, but I never felt saved. I was a Christian. Just as Christian as the best of them, but now I'm beginning to see that such devotion is harmful. I realize that I was irrational yesterday by blaming God, but I am very confused about such things at times. This is something that has been ongoing for many years and I am tired of the guilt and unworthiness that I impose on myself in the name of God. I do respect your efforts to try to prevent me to make a mistake and I appreciate it. You are good people.

Radorth

That's not true at all. It's not about guilt, and I clearly said she would be better off cold than lukewarm. It's just a fact that I believe, and which I can show.

Those who supposedy "fall away" permanently only do so for two or perhaps three reasons

1. They were never really born again, never really knew God as he is, and were "raised" Christian. You hear this all the time. They say "I was raised Christian" as if that is enough. Sorry but "You must be born again" even if you have the whole Bible memorized.

2. They were born again, but were taught legalistic nonsense, become spiritually thirsty and leave their church in search of the spiritual reality they once felt.

3. Some may be Christians but are attracted by earthly lusts and cares. These are saved, but will suffer in this life, which suffering usually brings them back.

I haven't read all the atheist testimonies, it is true. But I seriously doubt there is one true rebirth experience in the lot.

Joel's evidence of being a Christian is that he once said two nice things about God and had missinary parents. I'm afraid this is rather typical.

Rad

Godless Dave

BlondeGoddess, the "you were never saved" gambit is a common one among Christians. They don't want to believe it's possible to cease being a Christian so if a Christian leaves the fold they have to assert that that person never was a Christian. Don't let it get to you.

Amos

The truth is that if you ever were a Christian after the manner of Jesus your mind, soul and body would have been transformed and there is no way that you could return to the original state of mind for the simple reason that in the hypostatic union of your two minds become one. So Joel, you were never one of those and are now honest to admid it.

Malcolm

Radorth,

You are saying the same thing in different ways, and it IS offensive. Of course no matter what I say to, you can easily claim that I was never "truly" saved. Who can say? It is unprovable.

But I assure you that I was a saved as anyone. I went through a very emotional and sincere conversion experience which changed my outlook. I prayed fervently, read the bible and a lot of other Christian teaching with deep sincereity. I was a leader of Bible Stuidies, a preacher, and was instrumental in bringing others to the faith. Was it possible to do all of that without being truly saved - was I being a charlatan?

Like GB says above, I prayed and begged God to save with the clearest and purest of motives that I know. If he did not respond to me and allowed me to fool myself for over 30 years, what kind of a god is he?

Radorth

BG

If you feel constant guilt and unworthiness, you don't understand the Gospel at all BG, and this to me is simply evidence you are not born again. By all means, get out of whatever church is teaching you that you must be "worthy" to be saved. I thank God every day I was not taught I had to be "worthy," and God would be doing you no favor by saving you through your own goodness. That is a recipe for future self-righteousness IMO, which we are wont to aquire anyway.

I am a little confused by your post, in which you say "I never felt saved." If you were saved, you would feel so I think. (Although faith ebbs and flows) So honestly aren't you at least acknowledgeing you do not know if you are a Christian or not? That's the whole point.

And all this talk about Christian ploys and "gambits" is just tendentious mind reading. I have no illusions about "saving" you and I'm not attacking other people's motives either. I just think they are sincerely wrong.

Rad

Godless Dave

BlondeGoddess, have you checked out Walking Away from Fundamentalism ?

Amos

Not only do the Christians try to brainwash you when you are in the church, but when you finally grow up, start thinking for yourself and see the truth for what it is, they come up with these lame and offensive coments. The whole "faith" is built around fear and guilt, and now that you (well me, anyway) have broken free from it, they try to double the amount of guilt they pile on you!

You can clearly see the difference in "breaking free" from the bondage of slavery and sin between Amergin, who was a cold Catholic, and now blondegoddess who was a lukewarm protestant. She tried to get born again a thousand times and this is what increased her guilt. Catholics are free from guilt because they were never counted among the righteous.

I am trying to instill courage in providing the factual evidence for the deceit that she had been enslaved to and I do this without slobbering all over her.



BlondeGoddess, the "you were never saved" gambit is a common one among Christians. They don't want to believe it's possible to cease being a Christian so if a Christian leaves the fold they have to assert that that person never was a Christian. Don't let it get to you.

No true Dave. I have never claimed to be a Christian, have never tried to lead someone to Christ and have always argued against sola scriptura and the protestant 'born again' schemes. I have nothing against protestant people but object to the mind twisting schemes that they become entangled in which I think is absolutly ruthless, perverted and a renewed effort of witchcraft.

Amos

These are good peole and most of them have been where you are now.