Godot

Apart from the potential of a placebo-like effect arising from how you perceive the health-diet relationship, this statement is a bit nebulous and could benefit from some elaboration. What aspect of health are you striving for? Reduced body fat? Lower CHD risk? Improved lipid profile? Just make sure that whatever diet you finally choose to follow is the one best suited to helping you achieve all of your dietary-associated health goals.

Baloo

While we're on personal testimonials, I thought I'd throw mine into the mix. My wife and I buy an assortment of healthy foods at the grocery store and we exercise regularly. I call it the "Eat healthy and exercise diet." About 95% of our meals come from these groceries, and since these groceries consist of a large variety of vegetables, grains, fruits, dairy, and meat (in order of increasing quantities), all of our nutrional needs are met without counting calories, taking expensive supplements, protein loading, carb loading, etc, etc. Our workouts include 2-3 weight bearing workouts and 2-3 cardio-intensive interval workouts (60 - 90% max heart rate) per week - about an hour per workout.

Because this lifestyle maintains a healthy foundation, I find the effects of any moderate excess to be completely buffered. If I go out to eat, I can have whatever I want off the menu - but then, I only go out about once a week. If I want a Hostess creme puff, I buy one (my cravings for such snacks, however, have dropped to near zero). I don't have to worry about what my mom has cooked when I go over there for dinner.

And my wife and I laugh our asses off every so often after an afternoon of listening to her family compare notes on the blood type diet, my brother's wife's family dissecting their latest Atkin's experiences, my aunt's family raving successed with the Carb Flush diet, or my dad rave about the weight he's lost by skipping breakfast and lunch every day (although we find that more scary than funny).

Don't get me wrong - they seem to be working for long periods of time for lots of the aforementioned people. I guess we personally have found that life is just too short to spend worrying about fad diets.

Kvalhion

I would have to say all of the above. Like Baloo mentioned, I do think the key is eating low-fat proteins, low glycemic carbohydrates and monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats. Of course, that is easier than it sounds, especially for people who currently have poor nutitional habits. Good health to me would include not being overweight, having normal blood pressure, not being at an escalated risk for heart disease and diabetes, etc.

Other than studies, I was wondering if you (Godot) recommend any books or programs that I might read that would give me more information? It would be helpful, for me at least, to read something that would explain results in layman terms rather than something too technical, as the scientific studies tend to be.

I am planning on picking up the Atkins 'New Diet Revolution' book tonight, although I am not convinced the Atkins plan is the way to go. Specifically, I am wondering how long a typical follower of the Atkins diet spends in ketosis. Does a person exit ketosis in the pre-maintenance phase? I am also not sure what is so special about ketosis; I realize that it switches the energy the body burns for fuel from glucogen to fat. Yet it seems to me that the maintenance phase is essentially the same as the zone: moderate carbs, protein and fat. With Atkins, most people are reporting weight loss of around 2 lbs a week. With the Zone, people are reporting weight loss of about 1.5 lbs a week. Thus, I am having a hard time understanding why ketosis is necessary in the first place. Hopefully I'll learn soon enough.

King Rat

For Strict Induction it is two weeks, or until your pee strip shows that you are in full ketosis, whichever comes first.

Once you are out of Strict Induction you can add 5 carbs a week. I'm in my 6th week of the Atkins Diet and according to my pee strip I'm still in ketosis, just not full ketosis. I've lost 25 pounds and can see my stomach muscles for the first time since high school. I started at 245 and I'm now at 220, my goal is 195. That is my "ideal" weight for my height and age (6' tall, 36 yrs. old). So another 25 and I'm golden.

BTW, anybody who wants to bullshit me that the 25 pounds I've lost is "water weight" can suck a lemon.

Kvalhion

Thanks for the info. I purchased a bunch of books today to read up on low carb diets.

I purchased the following:

Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution
Atkins for Life
Power Protein
The Schwarzbein Principle

Should be some interesting reads. Off the the top of my head, I am currently leaning towards the Protein Power method, as they recommend being on the cusp of ketosis but not actually going into ketosis, and recommend determining what your protein requirement should be. I'll have to see which I will chose after reading the books, though.

JGL53

King Rat, are you telling Godot to "go suck a lemon"? That's not nice. If you aren't careful, you'll hurt his feelings.


Baloo- Too bad we can't high five in person. I too buy a lot of my food at a large local health food type coop. (My dream is that a Wild Oates will open up a location near me.)

I suspect the only difference in our diets is my focus on keeping carbohydrate as the minor part of my diet, because that is what works for me (e.g., I use black soy beans to make dip, instead of regular black beans - the former has almost NO useable carbs).

Also like you I exercise almost daily - either an hour and a half bike ride, or an hour or so at the gym - weights 2-3 times a week, cardio at about 80-85 per cent my maximum.

Sadly though, the greater part of the population just can't or won't get into exercise to this degree. Maintaining proper weight and health is SO much easier when one does this amount of exercise.

Godot

JGL53: PBBBTTTTTT!!!! Besides, I happen to like lemons.
King Rat: anyone who suggested that you lost 25 pounds of water weight would be a few pickles short of a whopper. Between 5-10 pounds as water would be reasonable, but much of your loss would be through changes in LBM and fat mass.
Kvalhion: I can't recommend anything off of the top of my head, but I'll try and dig something up for you.

Tara

I'm prescribing to the anti-Atkins diet, although not intentionally; I eat almost no fat, very little protein and all carbs which, I know, is an abomination.

In my defense, I at least eat healthy carbs- fruits, veggies, and whole grain products; not a lot of processed stuff, white flour or sugar. But the nutritional shortcoming of most concern to me is my only sporadic consumption of protein. I'm surprised I've managed to exist like this for as long as I have without apparent problem.

I try to eat more protein but vegetarian options seem sparse. And I can't ever bring myself to eat meat... (I have both a irrational dislike of the taste and texture of it and somewhat of an objection to factory farming).

Anyone have good ideas for creative, non-meat protein sources? I eat beans... used to eat yogurt, but I seem to be somewhat lactose intolerant, so that's out, I sometimes eat eggs. Tofu, yeah, done that. But what else is there?

And why don't people on the atkins diet seek out vegetarian protein options? It seems everyone I know that's been on it eats only meat and cheese (gack).

JGL53

Thanks for being so honest. I know several people who, like you, are into "creating their own reality".

Fortunately, there are hundreds if not thousands of physicians who are presently trying their patients on controlled-carb diets (Apparently all you're up to, Godot is just trying our patience.)
As both physicians and their patients see the improvement in health that results, the low-fat paradign will slowly fade into the sunset (get along, little Godot).


What diet are you talking about - the potato, white flour and trans fat diet? There's been no vitamin deficiency reported in the Atkins maintenance diet.

People generally take vitamins for the deemed 'insurance' factor, or either for their antioxidant properties, not because they fear scurvy. Besides, with a multi-billion vitamin and supplement industry spending millions yearly in ads trying to convince all people that they need vitamins to be healthy, I doubt your voice of reason crying in the wilderness of II will be heeded by hardly anyone. But preach the 'truth', brother, as you judgmentally see it. Hell, even JESUS had to start at the bottom.

So? Even an agnostic is required by reality to pragmatically be either an atheist or a 'believer' (i.e, you either go to a church or you don't).

I.e., everbody has to eat if they wish to continue to live. An intelligent person will educate himself on the subject to whatever degree the facts are now known, and will try various theories of diet. The government theory ('recommendation') has been shown to be lacking, for most people, in my opinion. But eating a Pyramid based on the shifting sands of white flour and taters is an option some may still wish to try. No skin off my back - just as low carb diets ain't no skin off yours, dude.

Kvalhion

I suspect there are a couple of reasons. What most Atkins followers and the Atkins books would tell you is that the nutrients found in animal proteins are better than nutrients found in other proteins. They claim Atkins will not work without eating animal protein. Another option is probably convenience; it is easy to eat prepared meat and cheese, and is a less expensive option than soy.

I am somewhat skeptical that low carb diets will not work without animal protein. You might want to pick up 'The Soy Zone' by Dr Barry Sears. The book is dedicated to discussing vegetarian options for protein as well as provides a bunch of vegetarian recipies in the 40-30-30 ratio. If nothing else, it should give you some good ideas for non-animal proteins. Also, using protein powder is a good way to supplement protein as well.

A protein source that I use a lot is egg-beaters, which are 99% real eggs without the cholesterol. I also use cottage cheese. While I do not like the taste of cottage cheese plain, there are a lot of recipies to mix it with fruit or sttel cut oats or flavored yogurt, and it actually tastes pretty good when prepared that way. Soy burgers, hot dogs, sausage, etc, do not taste too bad, although they can be pretty expensive.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.