Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 03-20-2003, 07:06 PM

There have been studies done on the effects of prayer in healing the sick. Patients had people on the other side of the world pray for them ( the patients were blind to it, they weren't told the study was being done), and the patients had speedier recoveries, better results, and felt better compared to the control patients who had no one praying for them.

Granted that isn't hard evidence, but its good enough for me to believe prayer works, even when the person doesn't know they are being prayed for.

keyser_soze · 03-20-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
There have been studies done on the effects of prayer in healing the sick. Patients had people on the other side of the world pray for them ( the patients were blind to it, they weren't told the study was being done), and the patients had speedier recoveries, better results, and felt better compared to the control patients who had no one praying for them.

Granted that isn't hard evidence, but its good enough for me to believe prayer works, even when the person doesn't know they are being prayed for.

If it was a study done by reputable means, following scientific methods, then it WOULD be hard evidence. "I felt like it worked on that there farmer in australia" doens't count for much. They've had studies that tin hats prevented interfering with their brain waves. Wackos are always turning out some screwed up pseudo-study or another. Most are just a slanted way of looking at something. Give me data and I can turn it into anything I want, if I were so inclined. Want to know how to spin statistics? Here's an example from the 80's. "90% of wrecks occur within 10 miles of home, wear your seatbelt"....Remember that one? Well, the funny thing is, that 90% of all travel occurs within 10 miles of home. Please link us to your studies, and we will inspect them.

thebeave · 03-20-2003, 08:00 PM

Neat prayer experiment:

Let's say it is standard for you, as a Christian, to pray five times per day. Now for the next 60 days, tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to your God, followed by the number of prayers that he answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered. For the following 60 days after that, direct your prayers to the dust bunny under your bed, instead of to your God. Tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to the dust bunny, followed by the number of prayers that the dust bunny answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered "yes". Now compare the two percentage numbers between the deity prayers and the dust bunny prayers.

[Mr. Rogers] Can you guess the outcome of the experiment boys and girls? I knew you could. [/Mr. Rogers]

Magus55 · 03-20-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebeave
Neat prayer experiment:

Let's say it is standard for you, as a Christian, to pray five times per day. Now for the next 60 days, tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to your God, followed by the number of prayers that he answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered. For the following 60 days after that, direct your prayers to the dust bunny under your bed, instead of to your God. Tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to the dust bunny, followed by the number of prayers that the dust bunny answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered "yes". Now compare the two percentage numbers between the deity prayers and the dust bunny prayers.

[Mr. Rogers] Can you guess the outcome of the experiment boys and girls? I knew you could. [/Mr. Rogers]

Neat prayer experiment? Try insult to intelligence just because you choose not to believe. First of all, Christians are always praying to God. I pray and talk to Him all day long. Second, prayers don't always happen immediately. God is not a magic genie. He answers prayers in His time, not ours. And some times the answer is just no, but he always answers.

echidna · 03-20-2003, 08:36 PM

http://www.theonion.com/onion3622/go...s_prayers.html

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO�For as long as he can remember, 7-year-old Timmy Yu has had one precious dream: From the bottom of his heart, he has hoped against hope that God would someday hear his prayer to walk again. Though many thought Timmy's heavenly plea would never be answered, his dream finally came true Monday, when the Lord personally responded to the wheelchair-bound boy's prayer with a resounding no.

Quote:

Said Angela Schlosser, a day nurse who witnessed the Divine Manifestation: "An incredible, booming voice said to Timmy, 'I am the Lord thy God, who created the rivers and the mountains, the heavens and the earth, the sun and the moon and the stars. Before Me sits My beloved child, whose faith is that of the mustard seed from which grows mighty and powerful things. My child, Timmy Yu, I say unto you thus: I have heard your prayers, and now I shall answer them. No, you cannot get out of your wheelchair. Not ever."

orac · 03-20-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Neat prayer experiment? Try insult to intelligence just because you choose not to believe. First of all, Christians are always praying to God. I pray and talk to Him all day long. Second, prayers don't always happen immediately. God is not a magic genie. He answers prayers in His time, not ours. And some times the answer is just no, but he always answers.

You claimed there have been valid studies that prove the effectiveness of prayer.

Would you care to describe how these studies were done?

Btw, "sometimes I get what I prayed for (a 'yes' answer) and sometimes I don't (a 'no' answer) therefore all prayers are answered" is not actual evidence that prayer works.

Oh, and some people would like to know why God thinks they should spend decades in severe pain before God "answers their prayer" for relief by finally "letting" them die. Does this achieve a worthwhile and noble result? Oh, sorry, I remember now. In god's time this is barely an eyeblink.

lpetrich · 03-20-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Neat prayer experiment? Try insult to intelligence just because you choose not to believe. First of all, Christians are always praying to God. I pray and talk to Him all day long. Second, prayers don't always happen immediately. God is not a magic genie. He answers prayers in His time, not ours. And some times the answer is just no, but he always answers.

Not a very trustworthy being.

Especially as the Xian God is essentially a superpowerful "magic genie".

ps418 · 03-21-2003, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
There have been studies done on the effects of prayer in healing the sick. Patients had people on the other side of the world pray for them ( the patients were blind to it, they weren't told the study was being done), and the patients had speedier recoveries, better results, and felt better compared to the control patients who had no one praying for them.

Granted that isn't hard evidence, but its good enough for me to believe prayer works, even when the person doesn't know they are being prayed for.

Nonsense. There is NO prayer control group, because some people pray general prayers for the well-being of all people. Your claim that there was a 'control group' "who had no one praying for them" is simply false.

Also, if I remember correctly, the most recent study to look at the effect of intercessory prayer found no difference at all in any objective outcome measure.

Patrick

hezekiah jones · 03-21-2003, 08:20 AM

xian, how come you never answered my question?

King Rat · 03-21-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

xian, how come you never answered my question?

shhhh...

He's praying for answers.

How come he never answered anybody's questions?

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03-20-2003, 07:06 PM	#41
Magus55 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7,204	There have been studies done on the effects of prayer in healing the sick. Patients had people on the other side of the world pray for them ( the patients were blind to it, they weren't told the study was being done), and the patients had speedier recoveries, better results, and felt better compared to the control patients who had no one praying for them. Granted that isn't hard evidence, but its good enough for me to believe prayer works, even when the person doesn't know they are being prayed for.

03-20-2003, 08:00 PM	#43
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	Neat prayer experiment: Let's say it is standard for you, as a Christian, to pray five times per day. Now for the next 60 days, tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to your God, followed by the number of prayers that he answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered. For the following 60 days after that, direct your prayers to the dust bunny under your bed, instead of to your God. Tabulate in your notebook the number of prayers you said to the dust bunny, followed by the number of prayers that the dust bunny answered "yes". Compute the percentage of prayers answered "yes". Now compare the two percentage numbers between the deity prayers and the dust bunny prayers. [Mr. Rogers] Can you guess the outcome of the experiment boys and girls? I knew you could. [/Mr. Rogers]

03-21-2003, 08:20 AM	#49
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	xian, how come you never answered my question?

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