Dr. Retard

And? Why should I care whether the tangible benefits brought by my behavior last forever? Again, is there some rule saying I only get to bring about tangible benefits if they last forever?

Metaxy

It's sort of like creating something (a painting or a meal or whatever) no one else will ever see in that in the end, nothing will have changed. The only reason would be an instinct to create it.

Dr. Retard

Hold on, it's just false that in the end, nothing will have changed. The well-being of the people I benefit will have changed. Sure, this benefit won't last forever. But it existed. Things are different than they would have been, on account of the benefit.

Look at these two numbers:

1000000000000000000000000000
1000000111111110000000000000

These numbers share the same ending. But they're different.

A painting no one else will ever see brings no benefit to anyone but myself. A painting other people see can bring benefit to those other people (if they like it). It makes no difference whether the painting, or its beneficial effects, lasts forever.

SimplyAtheistic

Nothing is selfless, nothing. When you die for other people, you make the choice that dying would be preferable to living with the guilt of the others' death. The same goes for any other so called "selfless" act. For example, if you saw some people who were about to die, but these people happened to be hitler, the antichrist, and Jay Leno, and you knew they would just cause suffering in the world, you wouldn't want to die with them because you wouldn't feel guilty about their deaths. If you can give me an example of something truly selfless, I would be quite amazed.
Jake

John Page

Like people who hate themselves but go on living because they deserve the misery?

Metaxy

The suicide hotline example! That could be very emotionally draining. The guilt would be bad, but not as bad.

johngalt

This is the morality of altruism. Sacrificing yourself for the good of others, etc. I am totally against this. I think that is why i read Ayn Rand. Her philosophy, Objectivism, is an individualist philosophy, and doesn't promote self-sacrifice and self-abnegation.

SimplyAtheistic

Maybe to you, but to the person that chose it, they made the choice that the hotline would be preferable to the guilt otherwise. Or else they wouldn't have chosen it.
Jake

Metaxy

You never intend to have kids, I assume.

Dr. Retard

Doing something because you think it will bring about a goal you value is different from doing something because you think it will bring you pleasure.

Everyone, inasmuch as they act, does things because they think it will bring about a goal they value. That's just what it is to be an agent. You can call that 'selfishness' if you want, I guess. But it doesn't square with the normal use of the term, which involves people doing things to bring about their own pleasure.