Panta Pei

High fives to Arrowman for the considerate posts reflecting a position I similarly hold, despite my case of the 'red ass' at theists unquestioned ability to impose their dogma during vulnerable situations while the evil atheists would be considered complete and utter A-holes for rejecting said dogma and ritual during the same scene.

The double-standard IRL has recently chapped me fairly badly and, though Helen often does promote an attempt at commonality, I find some of her more christian positions tenuous.

Hugs to you Helen, I hope you can find some validity to my assertions.



Like, somewhat,

~ Steve

(sorry Love is far too important a concept to float about carelessly, IMHO. )

atheist_in_foxhole

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/25/bus.crash.survivor/index.html" target="_blank">Bus crash survivor: 'God protected me'</a>

Panta Pei

You know, with a God like that, who needs a Devil?

Can anyone &lt;looks over at HelenSL&gt; articulate the difference between an omnipotent deity that fails to act to protect these poor innocent babies and a lesser deity that causes the act?

A. Freewill (prayer useless)
B. Mysterious Plan (tm) (undefendable IMHO, get a grip)
C. Punishment (unjustly abusive)
D. No deities ~ just us (thanks EMT, Fire Rescue and Doctors for actually helping those you could)

Arrowman

Oh dear.

"I really feel God protected me," she said. "I mean, I was so close to that pole. The
girl behind me died. I really feel his hand was over me and watching me."

The girl behind must have been an Atheist Slut - no, wait - this was a church group, right? So the girl behind must have been so much more infinitely good and righteous than our surviving friend, that god wants her in heaven right now - or, ..... Oh, I give up....

After the crash, Ray tried to reach her mother on her cellular phone but could not get through. So she called her boyfriend to tell him what happened.

God's guiding hand again. In God's eyes, boyfriends are more important than mothers, after all.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

Hayden

Thanks - apology accepted. I feel better knowing you hadn't looked at the pic before making your post.

HR

Hayden

I think this epitomises what many of us feel is absurd about this situation:

a) Parents send children to church camp, and presumably pray for their safety.
b) Bus crashes, some children killed, others injured.
c) Parents pray for souls of children killed, give thanks for survival of others.
d) Surviving children credit God with saving them.

None of us are glad these children died; we'd never imagine confronting the bereaved about their beliefs at this time; but we're astounded by their continued belief in the power of prayer and the infallibility and omnipotence of their god.

I just find it confusing.

That's about as much as I feel I can say on this matter.

HR

[Edited for missing words]

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Hayden ]</p>

HelenM

HelenM

I had, you could have assumed I had a perceptive disorder or bad eyesight. It wouldn't necessarily have implied that your gender in the photo is ambiguous...

(Assuming this doesn't happen to you all the time )

love
Helen

HelenM

Originally posted by Panta Pei:

The double-standard IRL has recently chapped me fairly badly and, though Helen often does promote an attempt at commonality, I find some of her more christian positions tenuous.

I understand.

Hugs to you Helen, I hope you can find some validity to my assertions.

Hugs backatcha...

I don't like assertions but I do think about what I read here - even your comments - and my outlook on life has changed a lot because of what I've read here and the interactions I've had here.

I hope you believe that even though I expect my stubborn irrational refusal to let go of theism frustrates you .



Like, somewhat,

~ Steve

(sorry Love is far too important a concept to float about carelessly, IMHO. )

Sure...I understand. I try to be as careful as I can with it.

But...part of the fun in life is using provocative sign-offs

Seriously though, although it might sound annoyingly superficial, I do work hard at meaning what I say and I don't lightly write 'love Helen'. I sometimes wonder whether to stop writing it because I daresay people who have seen my posts are used to it anyway and it probably annoys new people who think it's some Christian 'ruse'.

But...if nothing else it reminds me that I want it to be true, and to try to keep it as true as it can be, given that it couldn't have the same meaning on a discussion board as it could IRL, nor could it in a casual friendship, as it does with close friends, one's SO, etc.

love
Helen

Panta Pei

"I hope you believe that even though I expect my stubborn irrational refusal to let go of theism frustrates you"

Even Spiderman (tm), at times, catches glimpses of Norman Osborn(tm) through the overwhelming power of the Green Goblin(tm).

I'm having a Spidey moment.

Thanks for the understanding, Helen.