rdalin

Along these same lines, Shake, my understanding is that John Paul is creating saints at an almost frantic rate; many more than most of his predecessors. It seems likely, therefore, that many of the 'miracles' are dubious at best (not that any miracle is anything other than dubious, of course). From what I have read, MT was by no means universally admired within the Catholic church, and I suspect that there's a large measure of politics behind her rapid progress towards sanctification.

Gemma's attitude is not unusual. There's an ardent defender of Catholicism and the church on another forum that I frequent, and he interprets any criticism at all as 'Catholic-bashing.' Some of us have tried to get him to define the difference between legitimate criticism and bashing, but to no avail.

Bill Snedden

I think that this is an excellent point and one worth exploring in some greater detail.

This particular class of miracle claims has always somewhat perplexed me. Why would the god of the bible, who parted the Red Sea, fed the Israelites in the desert, and cured the blind and lame, choose to reveal his power and glory by making images of the BVM appear on office buildings, preserving the bodies of the dead, making icons and paintings bleed, or causing the palms of poor unfortunate souls to bleed?

I can certainly understand why people would attribute so-called "miraculous healings" (Lourdes and such) to God (even if I disagree), but why this stuff? Are they so desparate to see some sign of God working in the world that they grasp at whatever mundane straws might come their way?

I mean, really, these things look like parlour tricks compared to some of God's more "biblical" stuff. This is a being who can flood the entire planet, stop the earth's revolutions, part seas, shake mountains, etc, etc. Why in the world would he choose to engage in this sort of trivial activity?

Disregarding for the moment that there are possible naturalistic explanations of the so-called "incorruptibles" (as shown by numerous other posters), can you (GT) provide an answer to Sabine's question? Why should she, or any other skeptical person, Christian or otherwise, believe that the biblical God would behave in such a fashion?

Quite the contrary, I should think. Given who and what God is, it seems to me that even Christians would prefer naturalistic explanations for these particular miracle claims.

Regards,

Bill Snedden
_____________
"There is no god higher than truth" Mohandas Gandhi

Proxima Centauri

I'm pleased Undercurrent gave us that link. It helped us all sort out the inspired rubbish that the Pope has been spouting about alleged miraculously uncorrupted corpses. Well it helped all except the Roman Catholics. They can't see reason, poor things.

brighid

Gemma,

Care to explain why non-Christian or Catholic dead people have been equally preserved? Like in this instance?

Or

Or
Or

The mummy of Vuc Khac Minh, who was head of the temple of Duc until his death in 1639 ... http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=930

and I can't find the reference but I remember reading about a Chinese, female mummy that was discovered perfectly preserved ... I believe in some sort of solution ... now why couldn't Christ been privy to that ancient technology that preserved this woman centuries before his own death? And what about those saints?

Did God preserve those Buddhist monks who died in meditative states ... you know the ones who don't believe in your God or any God?

Brighid

and so many more.

Brighid

Amos

You think maybe that that is why she is not an incorruptable saint now?

Amos

Have you noticed that none of them were protestant? We don't claim to be superior to Buddhist or any other mythology but just more priviledged by God than most other mythologies.

Your post suggests that the incorruptibility of the human body is a universal truth and perhaps evidence that the mind, soul and body had been transformed into a higher state of existence.

rdalin

I'm an atheist, so I don't think that anyone is a saint. If I believed in saints, however, I would certainly think that MT's behavior during life would preclude any possibility of her being a saint.

brighid

Amos,

Your Protestant bigotry is really getting old. Unfortunately, with some of the more modern mummies that could be of Protestant descent, if no specific information is known about a particular mummies life there is no way to determine whether or not said mummy was Protestant.

No, I don't agree that Catholicism is more privileged by God then any other mythologies for obvious reasons. I would think a God who plays favorites is a bit capricious and lacking of the kind of moral fiber a deity worthy of worship should possess.

Catholicism sure as shit does claim to be superior then ALL other mythologies and your anti-Protestant rhetoric speaks volumes to this, and the Papal endorsed notion that all other non-Catholic people are "defective" because they lack the "fullness of the faith" and "truth."

Brighid

rdalin

It's pretty funny that in one sentence you admit that Catholicism is nothing more than just one mythology among others, and then claim that 'God' - whatever that is - likes your mythology best. Is the Catholic version of things somehow more entertaining than the others?

Why couldn't the incorruptibility of some - very few - human bodies be evidence that there are physical conditions under which some - very few - human bodies don't decay? Why do you drag in universal truth and some imaginary higher state of existence?

Amos

Gosh girl, I should have though of that but since they were digging in Vegas I just assumed that the were looking for a protestant and had the spine chilling experience that they only found one and he was from Chinese descent.

But don't we procreate God in our image?That does not make us better but just more enlightened.