pz

How does this:get translated into an attempt to impose negative stereotypes on individuals? I've said over and over again that I know many theists would be fair and good. I know that there are nasty atheists and nice atheists, and nasty theists and nice theists. I do not see any homogeneity in either group.

We have one simple distinction here: do you believe in unevidenced supernatural beings, or do you not? How the question is answered does not say anything about the worth of your character. It does say something about your ability to support of the goals of the secular web. I oppose any attempt to make that question irrelevant to the operation of the iidb.

Gurdur

Agreed.
However, my comment was a rebuttal of just such an attempt.
I merely pointed out that just on this thread the facts refuted the claim made.
My comment was a refutation rather than a positive claim regarding feeling throughout the community.

yguy

Indeed. It would likely draw a few more theists, but they would give II more opportunities for deconversion.

pescifish

Yes, I understand! I actually just edited my post to make it clear that I didn't think you were doing so.

I not only hate debate, but I really stink at it, so I probably should have stuck with my initial instinct of staying out of the thread. Especially this time of the morning when I really need to be somewhere else, too. Sorry about that. I'll shut up again, I promise.

brighid

Your continual use of "theists" and the crap they peddle would be where that conclusion comes from. You have continually used the "us" and "them" generalization and despite the fact that you have said you know many theist would be fair and good you continue to make rather derogatory comments about "theists" in general.

Your wild conspiracy theories are also another contributing factor.

B

pz

This is ridiculous.

What we have here is a thread that is about the GENERAL rule of allowing theists as a GENERAL group to be moderators. I have not seen any discussion of specific theistic individuals as moderators (nor would it be a good idea at this point). What I am seeing is that people are allowed to argue for the general goodness and benefit of theists as moderators without quarrel, but even hinting at a general detriment of the same is grounds for flinging unfounded accusations of bigotry, intolerance, hatred, and fear.

You're trying to stack the deck.

I see it as a pretty good sign that we should not allow theists to be moderators when so many of the proponents of the idea seem to think insult is a good way to shout down any opposition.

I should note that when I have spoken of theists as individuals, I have clearly stated that I think some of them would be good and fair-minded as moderators. My point here, however, is that there is no general evidence that theism is any virtue for moderators (and I would also agree that atheism in itself is not sufficient).

Fair as they might be, however, by definition no theist is going to be supportive of the goals of the iidb.

Gurdur

So what ?
Like I always say, Bluff ! Works for me.

No effing way, José. Your own individual POV is a very interesting one and should definitely be given here.
Sorry to hear that.
Please don't worry.
Please don't.
We really need POV's like your own too.

brighid

Yeah, the pro-theist crowd is the one making wild accussation about infiltration of iidb by theists as the reason why we are having this debate, or talking about the "crap" theists peddle .... and so on and so forth! Yeah ....

Brighid

Gurdur

This is getting truly ridiculous:
Proponents of at least discussing the idea include myself, Brighid and other hardline atheists, none of whom have descended to personal insult --- despite your own ad hom that this is all perhaps some theist trojan horse.

And I must say I dislike and protest the fact that this thread is getting derailed by such ad hom accusations being thrown around, and in danger therefore of closure.

yguy

Dal is only being as direct with you as she always is with everyone else, myself included. Her "insults" will never "shout me down", so I don't know what your problem is. If anyone is bolstering the credibility of II, it is the likes of Dal, brighid and Gurdur, from this theist's perspective - not you.