Freethought & Rationalism Archive

viscousmemories · 08-04-2003, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
Here:

http://www.funmurphys.com/blog/archives/00000100.html

By the by, I have not met every battered woman in the world either, but I think it's a pretty safe bet to say they are sadder than the general population.

Gemma Therese

Quote:

From your link:

"The survey asked the nuns if they had been victims of (1) childhood sex abuse (18.6%), (2) sexual exploitation (12.5%), or (3) sexual harassment (9.3%), and then lumps all three together. So the maximum number would be 40%; but since only 10% of the childhood sex abuse, less than 75% of the sexual exploitation (which includes consentual sex), and less than half of the sexual harassment took place at the hands of nuns, priests, or other religious person (whatever that is), the figure drops to 15.9% -- which is still 15.9% too large, but at least that's a more accurate number - and less than half of what is claimed."

Ah, I see. So your argument is that only 15.9% of nuns have suffered "feelings of anger, shame, anxiety and depression" and leading some to "consider leaving religious life" or even attempting suicide as the result of sexual abuse. That's a relief.

Incidentally, you never responded to my last question on page one of this thread. Did you miss it? Or are you just in the habit of ignoring any comments that prove you wrong? (You don't have to answer that, it was rhetorical.) Now that you've had a couple days to think about it, could you try answering it now?

"So you concede, then, based on the fact that (nuns) may choose to sin and leave, that they have not really given up their freedom?"

Thanks,

vm

Sarpedon · 08-04-2003, 08:01 AM

I notice Gemma Therese, that you harp on livius for not answering, so I feel I should break my silence...

Where is YOUR reply to my mathematical argument that being a nun can be explained away as an aberrant lifestyle choice? I don't happen to know how many nuns there are, which marred my argument some. With your enormous knowledge of all things nunish, could you provide information as to how many women have entered into this supposedly joyful profession? Perhaps the reason is that the number is so vanishingly small that it makes your argument (even more) ridiculous.

Gemma Therese · 08-04-2003, 10:51 AM

Happy sisters:

http://www.nashvilledominican.org

Gemma Therese

Gemma Therese · 08-04-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by viscousmemories

"So you concede, then, based on the fact that (nuns) may choose to sin and leave, that they have not really given up their freedom?"

Thanks,

vm

Yes, they have given up their freedom. We are free in this country, but we are not free to commit a crime, without consequences. Nuns are free to leave their order, but if they leave without permission from Rome, there are consequences.

Gemma Therese

livius drusus · 08-04-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
Happy sisters:

http://www.nashvilledominican.org

Sisters raped by priests in Africa

Quote:

Among the abuses detailed is the case of a nun being forced to have an abortion by the priest who impregnated her. She later died and he officiated at her requiem mass.

Also cited is the case of a mother superior who repeatedly complained to her local bishop that priests in the diocese had made 29 of her nuns pregnant

The bishop, according to the report, subsequently relieved her of her duties.

Sister Maura O�Donohue's report (http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/do...39;DONOHUE.htm):

Quote:

2. In several countries sisters are troubled by the policy that, when a sister becomes pregnant she must leave the congregation, while the priest involved with her can continue his ministry. This question is raised from the point of view of social justice. The sister is left to raise the child in a single parent family, often with a great deal of stigmatisation, and frequently in very poor socio-circumstances. I was given examples in several countries where such women were forced into becoming a second or third wife in a family, because of lost status in the local culture. The alternative, as a matter of survival, is to go �on the streets� -- as prostitutes, and inter alia to expose themselves to the risk of HIV, if not already infected.
[...]
4. Some priests are recommending that sisters take a contraceptive, misleading them that �the pill� will prevent transmission of HIV. Others have actually encouraged abortion for the sisters with whom they have been involved. Some Catholic medical professionals employed in Catholic hospitals have reported pressure being exerted on them by priests to procure abortions in those hospitals for religious sisters (1990).

Sister Yvonne

Quote:

Nevertheless, after serving the church for 37 years, Yvonne Maes now questions the existence of God. Her battle against the clergy has demolished her faith. She spends her Sundays in Vancouver's forests rather than attending church, looking for a new meaning to her life.

Gemma Therese · 08-04-2003, 11:41 AM

You're evading addresing the link I posted.

http://www.nashvilledominican.org

Look at the sister profiles:

http://nashvilledominican.org/html/profiles.htm

Read their stories. Look at the joy that is theirs. Why are they happy?

Gemma Therese

livius drusus · 08-04-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
You're evadibng addresing the link I posted.

http://www.nashvilledominican.org

Gemma Therese

Again with the mote and log, I see. You are nothing if not consistent. I'll tell you what, Gemma. I'll regale you with my response to your site, if you respond to any one of the three I posted above.

And here it is:

All I see on your site is some pictures of smiling nuns. That's PR, Gemma. You don't really think any order is going to post the rate of of abuse and neglect on their own website, do you?

Oh but wait. I see you added more

Quote:

Look at the sister profiles:

http://nashvilledominican.org/html/profiles.htm

Read their stories. Look at the joy that is theirs. Why are they happy?

Well, perhaps they're putting on a happy face when inside they're dying. Or perhaps because they haven't been sent to Africa yet to get raped, impregnated, and forced to choose between prostitution or abortion. Or perhaps Father Frank Goodall hasn't been assigned to the Nashville Dominicans yet.

Still, even if I grant that every last one of your smiling Tennessee Dominicans are as happy as they are moon-faced, it says nothing at all about the comparative happiness of nuns and the general population, nothing at all about the existence of God. In other words, no matter how many times you post that one measly link, it will never miraculously transubstantiate into evidence.

Gemma Therese · 08-04-2003, 12:28 PM

livius drusus,

Is that the best response you gave give? Because if it is, I feel sorry about your (apparent) lack of intelligence. Really, that was an insult to religious sisters, Catholics, and intelligent people everywhere.

As far as your links are concerned, the sexual trauma that sisters have endured is indeed horrible and inexcusable, and something does need to be done. But that is not the point of this thread. You have still evaded the question --

Why are sisters happy?

Also, have you ever met a sister?

Gemma Therese

08-04-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

I feel sorry about your (apparent) lack of intelligence.

I'm no moderator, but my momma taught me to think before I speak. Good mannerisms, good discussions, and no flaming makes the threads much more enjoyable.

Mageth · 08-04-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Gemma Therese

Quote:

As far as your links are concerned, the sexual trauma that sisters have endured is indeed horrible and inexcusable, and something does need to be done. But that is not the point of this thread. You have still evaded the question --

Why are sisters happy?

My irony meter just busted.

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08-04-2003, 08:01 AM	#82
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	I notice Gemma Therese, that you harp on livius for not answering, so I feel I should break my silence... Where is YOUR reply to my mathematical argument that being a nun can be explained away as an aberrant lifestyle choice? I don't happen to know how many nuns there are, which marred my argument some. With your enormous knowledge of all things nunish, could you provide information as to how many women have entered into this supposedly joyful profession? Perhaps the reason is that the number is so vanishingly small that it makes your argument (even more) ridiculous.

08-04-2003, 10:51 AM	#83
Gemma Therese Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: new york Posts: 608	Happy sisters: http://www.nashvilledominican.org Gemma Therese

08-04-2003, 11:41 AM	#86
Gemma Therese Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: new york Posts: 608	You're evading addresing the link I posted. http://www.nashvilledominican.org Look at the sister profiles: http://nashvilledominican.org/html/profiles.htm Read their stories. Look at the joy that is theirs. Why are they happy? Gemma Therese

08-04-2003, 12:28 PM	#88
Gemma Therese Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: new york Posts: 608	livius drusus, Is that the best response you gave give? Because if it is, I feel sorry about your (apparent) lack of intelligence. Really, that was an insult to religious sisters, Catholics, and intelligent people everywhere. As far as your links are concerned, the sexual trauma that sisters have endured is indeed horrible and inexcusable, and something does need to be done. But that is not the point of this thread. You have still evaded the question -- Why are sisters happy? Also, have you ever met a sister? Gemma Therese

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