Infidelettante

Originally posted by Eric H
Hello JTVrocher

Sometimes I think Christianity can give people a really hard time, and you sound like you’ve been squeezed through the mangle big time.

Hello Eric H, yes it was a hard time but it was also a very long time ago. I'm better now thank you.

Christianity must be right for it to have any meaning.

But for me it came to have no meaning. What does it mean to be separated from the Divine. And, how could that happen. I came to see that there can be no separation from the Divine nature. How can we be apart from all things. I am a pantheist. How can I not be part of all things. How can all things not be Divine. For me all this works and so it is true. What works is true. And so it has meaning for me. It has the meaning that Christianity could not offer.

From what you are saying it has caused you a great deal of pain, something has to be wrong.

Yes Eric, something is wrong. Christianity is wrong. It is wrong for me. I wrote above that what works is true. Christianity does not work for me. It is not true. For me. It seems to work for you. For you it is true.

I walked away from the Church for around thirty years; my major disagreement with the church still exists, so in a way I have come back even though I still disagree with the way some aspects of Christianity are taught. I still voice my doubts and question the Catholic Churches teachings.

I am a pantheist and a Pagan. We attempt to reclaim the traditions of the pre-christian religions. This means that, to some extent I define my religion by the fact that it is not yours. I try to find a way to relate to creation outside the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world view. I do admire the Catholic affinity for ritual, a subject I study and practice.

Like so many things, Christianity suffers from interpretation, probably every separate Christian Religion will tell you that they hold the truth, and there must be at least a thousand Christian Religions with many variations of truth.

And here we are back to what is true. You say you doubt and question the teachings of the Catholic Church yet you are still Catholic are you not. What teachings of the church are not true for you. Which do not work. For you. You see it is not that there are many interpretations but that there must be only one interpreter. That one must be you. You say church is wrong in some ways. Is that too harsh? You disagree with her teachings so one or the other is wrong. Is this true? Is it the Catholic church that desides what is true. Or is it you? So if it is the church then you have some making up to do. If it is you, and I think it must be, then you and I differ only in degree. I reject all, you reject some. The question now becomes why do you not reject all. What does the church offer you that you can not find in yourself? Why do you hold so many *variations of the truth* when what is true is entirely in your hands. You are well on your way. You have found some of what does not work for you. You have found that some things are not true. It is only a little way more to your own truth. To what works for you. It will hurt. But that will pass.

You can listen to a number of priests from the same religion, and you sense that their interpretation of faith can come from different angles.

And again, why should you allow anyone else to interpret for you. Do you not know enough? Are they the only ones who know all the angles? Maybe the only angle should be yours.

Then you look around and see that there are Muslims, Hindu, Jews, to name but a few, it seems that we need faith despite mans bests efforts to complicate things.

But if you are to have this faith, you need a purpose and a motivation great enough, so that it makes some sense.

My religion gives me place in creation. It allows me to participate in creation. It forms and realizes my needs and desires. It brings joy and fulfillment. And it does all that with not a single drop of faith.

Can there be a great enough purpose?

My motivation is that this is the only life I get. I will try to live it well. My purpose is to be a good man. A good husband. A good father. A good son. And to leave the world somewhat better than I found. Only that makes sense.
Peace

Eric

And to you Eric

JT

Jamie_L

Yes, and a person who doesn't think critically may have faith that the con artist at their door can be trusted with their life savings? What do you think about that type of faith? Or how about faith that the nice-looking stranger offering to give a teen-age girl a ride home will do as he says.

Faith without evidence can be dangerous. I don't understand why people think it is so noble.

Jamie

malookiemaloo

Fine, but I think you are avoiding the point I am raising.


m

Jamie_L

Well, I'm not intentionally avoiding it, but I may be missing it. If I am interpretting you correctly, you are saying faith has value because anyone can possess faith.

I don't think "transcending knowledge" makes something valuable. Anyone can possess intolerance or bigotry. Such things also transcend knowledge. I don't believe that makes them valuable.

Jamie

Eric H

Hi JTVoucher

I am happy to hear that you have recovered from your encounter with Christianity, and you now have joy and fulfilment.


quote JT
My motivation is that this is the only life I get. I will try to live it well. My purpose is to be a good man. A good husband. A good father. A good son. And to leave the world somewhat better than I found. Only that makes sense.
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Our purposes and motivation in life could almost seem to be very similar.

You talk quiet a bit about truth and how you find truth for yourself, I also started down this road.

My first quest for truth was to try and find an answer for myself to only one question.

Is there a God, yes or no? This search took about a year of intense questioning for me, I ruled out the ‘probably God because the probably God can only exist in my imagination. At this stage I was not interested in trying to find out what kind of a God.

In the end I was fairly certain that he existed, but this did not give me a definite answer, Finally it came to a point where I had to make a decision before I could move on, I said yes there is a God Which was probably my first act of faith.

One year had gone by, now there was a second question. So what if there is a God, what is the greatest purpose for the existence of a God?

I think you may have read my conclusion to this in the other thread called God’s purpose, it is to recognise the two greatest commandments as being the ultimate purpose for the existence of the universe and life. Another year had gone by.

At this stage I had not done anything about it, I just talked about it, It wasn’t until someone said to me, If you believe in a God then you should do something.
That was a greater test of faith.

Some years on and my whole faith hangs on two things only.

God exists, and the two greatest commandments.

I can only speak for myself but this faith has given me a greater freedom, a greater confidence, it has given me a will and a determination well beyond what I thought I was capable of, and it has given me peace of mind.


This faith is a journey for me, still one day at a time, I understand life always evolves and changes.

Now the aim for many religions seems to be conformity to one truth, and yet we have the freedom to love, this requires almost the opposite goal to conformity.


Peace JT

Eric




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