Freethought & Rationalism Archive

l-bow · 07-25-2002, 05:40 AM

KA,

I'm amazed you don't about the fact that many things about Jesus were "forshadowed" in the OT. Remeber that thing I brought up about Barabbas? It turns out that Barabbas' release and Jesus' crucifixion was forshowed in the OT. It's about how you have two goats and one is lets go. Don't believe me KA? Just read _Didache_. It explicitly explains it. Obviously it was meant to be a fulfillment of prophecy. But what if it was the other way around? That the writers of the gospels assumed Jesus was the messiah, and went to the OT to look for relavant verses about the messiah.

In Matthew's gospel, Jesus rides on two animals, not one as in the other gospels. This is because the writer misunderstood an expression used in a verse.

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: l-bow ]

King Arthur · 07-25-2002, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by l-bow:
KA,

I'm amazed you don't about the fact that many things about Jesus were "forshadowed" in the OT. Remeber that thing I brought up about Barabbas? It turns out that Barabbas' release and Jesus' crucifixion was forshowed in the OT. It's about how you have two goats and one is lets go. Don't believe me KA? Just read _Didache_. It explicitly explains it.

The cases in point are those that Steven has put forth. Yes, I know about prophecies. I also know about Bar Abbas.

Peter Kirby · 07-25-2002, 01:12 PM

I-bow writes: Just read _Didache_.

You probably mean the Epistle of Barnabas.

best,
Peter Kirby

Steven Carr · 07-26-2002, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by King Arthur:


Literally, that phrase seems to be "amazed to us all this amazement".

So, according to you, this is the way the verse would sound:

"And he [Elisha] said to him [Gehazi], Say now to her, Behold, amazed to us all this amazement,what should I do for thee? Hast thou any request to make to the king, or to the captain of the host? And she said, I dwell in the midst of my people."

Comeon', this doesn't make any sense... It's obvious that the translators were attempting to literally render the Hebrew and it didn't come out quite right. Again, from context, it is obvious that the lady went through trouble to get a room set up for the prophet and he is asking her what he can do for her because she went to all the trouble, not all the amazement.

Obviously, the literal definition just does not seem to fit here contextually. This is why I do not give more lexical definitions.

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]

Please point out where on my web page I say that was the translation of the verse. I translated the phrase, which is uncannily similar to what mark used. If he took it out of context, that is not my fault.

Steven Carr · 07-26-2002, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by King Arthur:


These books will give you more of an understanding of exactly how the NT used the Septuagint, which was mostly in quotes.

Silva and Jobbes, p.183:
"The importance of LXX Greek for understanding the language of the NT is widely acknowledged, although the influence of the former on the latter has sometimes been exaggerated."

Steven's examples of influence very much seem to be a case of this kind of exaggeration.

This appears to be argument by assertion and bullying.

KA writes 'BTW, Steven, would you please give your source for these? Did you really "find" them yourself or are you borrowing the examples from a book? If a book or scholar, whom? As a hint, this might lend more credibility to your case.'

And this appears to mean that King Arthur wants people to argue by authority. I don't do that. I was trained as a scientist, and in science, people don't argue by saying 'Einstein said this' or 'Dirac said that'

And I notice KA , despite his truly excellent knowledge of Greek, cannot find examples where 'ekstasin' should be translated 'trouble'

07-25-2002, 05:40 AM	#51
l-bow Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hawaii Posts: 215	KA, I'm amazed you don't about the fact that many things about Jesus were "forshadowed" in the OT. Remeber that thing I brought up about Barabbas? It turns out that Barabbas' release and Jesus' crucifixion was forshowed in the OT. It's about how you have two goats and one is lets go. Don't believe me KA? Just read _Didache_. It explicitly explains it. Obviously it was meant to be a fulfillment of prophecy. But what if it was the other way around? That the writers of the gospels assumed Jesus was the messiah, and went to the OT to look for relavant verses about the messiah. In Matthew's gospel, Jesus rides on two animals, not one as in the other gospels. This is because the writer misunderstood an expression used in a verse. [ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: l-bow ]</p>

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07-25-2002, 01:12 PM	#53
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	I-bow writes: Just read _Didache_. You probably mean the Epistle of Barnabas. best, Peter Kirby

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