Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HaysooChreesto! · 02-06-2003, 09:03 AM

I have a 13 year old daughter who informed me last night that not only was Avril Lavign punk, but so is Good Charlotte.

I'm glad that I don't have the huge generation gap that my parents did...

Anyway, I just about died laughing. "Punk? Kid, you don't know what punk is. You punk."
So this morning whilst driving her to school she had the priviledge of listening to some old Suicidal Tendencies. She hated it. I'm glad though. I don't want my kids listening to that shit.

But still, it's weird. While I enjoyed gritty hardcore music when I was a kid, I don't want my kids to. They're better off listening to Shakira, Avril Levign, and other bubblegummy type stuff.

So what bands are actually considered punk these days? You know, in the "F-you mom and dad, everything you represent is everything I despise" mode.

DarkBronzePlant · 02-06-2003, 09:12 AM

She's got some elements of punk in her music, but she's definitely not "punk." I think it takes more than being a young, guitar-oriented musician who makes a lot of angry-faced poses in front of a camera to be punk.

Actually, a lot of rock bands these days have elements of punk in them, but I can't think of any mainstream bands that are (which, of course, begs the questions, Could a true punk band ever be mainstream?) The two most popular, closest-to-punk bands I can think of recently are Green Day and Nirvana. Green Day's music was pretty close to punk... just a single over-distorted Strat, fast & furious drums, simple songs. Hell, Billy Joe or whatever his name is always sounded like he was singing with a Johnny Rotten-esque British accent, even though he was from Oakland! But even they were a bit too polished, and their lyrics were a little too tame.

Nirvana, on the other hand, had about all of the makings of punk, except their musical tempos were too slow. Punk music was usually about playing songs way too fast. Thus, if Nirvana did invent this style called "grunge", then I would probably define grunge as "slow punk."

HaysooChreesto! · 02-06-2003, 09:40 AM

Yeah, maybe I'm just in the early development stage of Crotchety Old Man Syndrome---"you, you, why YOU don't know nothin'...why, back in my day, they played out of tune, you couldn't unnerstand 'em, and they spit on us while we was in the audience...and we liked it!"

Many people decry the banality that the recording industry creates in pop music, but so what. I don't need my kids listening to a young and angry Henry Rollins (back in my day, we called him HanK!).

Good assessement about grunge BTW, at least as far as Nirvana goes.

jess · 02-06-2003, 09:41 AM

Green day 'polished punk'? You PUNK!

No really, I like polished punk. Hubby likes all punk. So who do I listen to? I like Rancid, the Donnas, MXPX, NoFX, What's Up Chuck, Elevation of Depression... A few others...man... I tend to lump alot of similar music together... I'll ask him to post... I think I am lumping in Goth, industrial and monster with the punk...

DarkBronzePlant · 02-06-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jess
Green day 'polished punk'? You PUNK!

Hey don't mind me... I personally find the Ramones--claimed by many to be the gandaddies of punk--to be a bit too polished for punk as well.

Now the Sex Pistols, on the other hand...

jess · 02-06-2003, 09:53 AM

Ramones= shiny

I like them. I like polished punk, and I will even see that they are not punk...

(you did know I was joking, right?)

Refused · 02-06-2003, 10:40 AM

I'm 29 and listen to Punk. I started listening to it when I was around 11 or 12.. was it a stage of growing up? I guess not. I prefer to think of it as a way of life. I'm not talking about tats and safety pins, I'm talking about integrity and free-thought.

What goes for punk these days?? Well, there are many great bands out there. Would I include Green Day, Offspring or Blink 182 as being "punk"... hmmm.... maybe. Isn't punk a mindset? I went through a stage where I would say "Green Day sold out". I would even go to their show.. show up for the opening band (Samiam, maybe), and then leave when Green Day came on. A lot of us did, but why? Because more people than us like their music?? Not a good enough reason, I was still maturing though. Now, I say more power to them. I don't actually rush out to buy their CDs, but they are opening up people's minds a little. And that's a good thing.

I prefer to support the local bands now... I'm a huge fan of Boy Sets Fire and Strike Anywhere. Bad Religion and SubHumAns (UK) will always be my favorite bands. These are very intellectual bands that have more to offer than "F%$% you".

And hey, what's wrong with Suicidal Tendencies?? Great band. I hope my future children will explore "daddy's" music. I hope they love it for what the music means. They will certainly hear it enough!

But if they like anything else, I will encourage it. There are limits of course...

Ahhhh... now I'm in the mood for music at work.. where is my Institutionalized CD...

Go Skate!!

- Refused (another classic, but short-lived punk band)

Refused · 02-06-2003, 10:42 AM

... But back to the OP. Good Charlotte and Avril?? I give respect where respect is due... but punk? Nope.

- Refused

Ab_Normal · 02-06-2003, 11:10 AM

Lamma, you're making the transition to Curmudgeon, a little acknowledged stage of life. I'm sure I'll be there soon.

We listen to the following bands with the nine-year old in the room (in no particular order):
Rancid
Ramones
Surf Punks (not really punk, I know...)
Offspring

but my husband draws the line at Suicidal Tendencies.

Anecdote alert:
When the kiddo's first word was "shit", we knew we had to amend our vocabulary. So we instituted a swearing tax, at 25 cents a cuss word. We listened to Offspring's Smash last weekend, and my husband kept track of the language and dutifully kicked into the swearing jar, which is now called the "college fund".

(personally, I'm thinking she's nine, she's probably already heard all these words, we don't have to charge. Mr. Ab is a little more conservative.)

NialScorva · 02-06-2003, 11:26 AM

I suspect to have a true counter cultural punk mindset these days you'd have to dress in a business suit all the time and listen to Bach. Counter-culture has become the culture.

02-06-2003, 09:03 AM	#1
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	What passes for punk these days? I have a 13 year old daughter who informed me last night that not only was Avril Lavign punk, but so is Good Charlotte. I'm glad that I don't have the huge generation gap that my parents did... Anyway, I just about died laughing. "Punk? Kid, you don't know what punk is. You punk." So this morning whilst driving her to school she had the priviledge of listening to some old Suicidal Tendencies. She hated it. I'm glad though. I don't want my kids listening to that shit. But still, it's weird. While I enjoyed gritty hardcore music when I was a kid, I don't want my kids to. They're better off listening to Shakira, Avril Levign, and other bubblegummy type stuff. So what bands are actually considered punk these days? You know, in the "F-you mom and dad, everything you represent is everything I despise" mode.

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02-06-2003, 09:12 AM	#2
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	She's got some elements of punk in her music, but she's definitely not "punk." I think it takes more than being a young, guitar-oriented musician who makes a lot of angry-faced poses in front of a camera to be punk. Actually, a lot of rock bands these days have elements of punk in them, but I can't think of any mainstream bands that are (which, of course, begs the questions, Could a true punk band ever be mainstream?) The two most popular, closest-to-punk bands I can think of recently are Green Day and Nirvana. Green Day's music was pretty close to punk... just a single over-distorted Strat, fast & furious drums, simple songs. Hell, Billy Joe or whatever his name is always sounded like he was singing with a Johnny Rotten-esque British accent, even though he was from Oakland! But even they were a bit too polished, and their lyrics were a little too tame. Nirvana, on the other hand, had about all of the makings of punk, except their musical tempos were too slow. Punk music was usually about playing songs way too fast. Thus, if Nirvana did invent this style called "grunge", then I would probably define grunge as "slow punk."

02-06-2003, 09:40 AM	#3
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	Yeah, maybe I'm just in the early development stage of Crotchety Old Man Syndrome---"you, you, why YOU don't know nothin'...why, back in my day, they played out of tune, you couldn't unnerstand 'em, and they spit on us while we was in the audience...and we liked it!" Many people decry the banality that the recording industry creates in pop music, but so what. I don't need my kids listening to a young and angry Henry Rollins (back in my day, we called him HanK!). Good assessement about grunge BTW, at least as far as Nirvana goes.

02-06-2003, 09:41 AM	#4
jess Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: rationalpagans.com Posts: 7,400	Green day 'polished punk'? You PUNK! No really, I like polished punk. Hubby likes all punk. So who do I listen to? I like Rancid, the Donnas, MXPX, NoFX, What's Up Chuck, Elevation of Depression... A few others...man... I tend to lump alot of similar music together... I'll ask him to post... I think I am lumping in Goth, industrial and monster with the punk...

02-06-2003, 09:53 AM	#6
jess Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: rationalpagans.com Posts: 7,400	Ramones= shiny I like them. I like polished punk, and I will even see that they are not punk... (you did know I was joking, right?)

02-06-2003, 10:40 AM	#7
Refused Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 490	I'm 29 and listen to Punk. I started listening to it when I was around 11 or 12.. was it a stage of growing up? I guess not. I prefer to think of it as a way of life. I'm not talking about tats and safety pins, I'm talking about integrity and free-thought. What goes for punk these days?? Well, there are many great bands out there. Would I include Green Day, Offspring or Blink 182 as being "punk"... hmmm.... maybe. Isn't punk a mindset? I went through a stage where I would say "Green Day sold out". I would even go to their show.. show up for the opening band (Samiam, maybe), and then leave when Green Day came on. A lot of us did, but why? Because more people than us like their music?? Not a good enough reason, I was still maturing though. Now, I say more power to them. I don't actually rush out to buy their CDs, but they are opening up people's minds a little. And that's a good thing. I prefer to support the local bands now... I'm a huge fan of Boy Sets Fire and Strike Anywhere. Bad Religion and SubHumAns (UK) will always be my favorite bands. These are very intellectual bands that have more to offer than "F%$% you". And hey, what's wrong with Suicidal Tendencies?? Great band. I hope my future children will explore "daddy's" music. I hope they love it for what the music means. They will certainly hear it enough! But if they like anything else, I will encourage it. There are limits of course... Ahhhh... now I'm in the mood for music at work.. where is my Institutionalized CD... Go Skate!! - Refused (another classic, but short-lived punk band)

02-06-2003, 10:42 AM	#8
Refused Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 490	... But back to the OP. Good Charlotte and Avril?? I give respect where respect is due... but punk? Nope. - Refused

02-06-2003, 11:10 AM	#9
Ab_Normal Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,842	Lamma, you're making the transition to Curmudgeon, a little acknowledged stage of life. I'm sure I'll be there soon. We listen to the following bands with the nine-year old in the room (in no particular order): Rancid Ramones Surf Punks (not really punk, I know...) Offspring but my husband draws the line at Suicidal Tendencies. Anecdote alert: When the kiddo's first word was "shit", we knew we had to amend our vocabulary. So we instituted a swearing tax, at 25 cents a cuss word. We listened to Offspring's Smash last weekend, and my husband kept track of the language and dutifully kicked into the swearing jar, which is now called the "college fund". (personally, I'm thinking she's nine, she's probably already heard all these words, we don't have to charge. Mr. Ab is a little more conservative.)

02-06-2003, 11:26 AM	#10
NialScorva Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Median strip of DC beltway Posts: 1,888	I suspect to have a true counter cultural punk mindset these days you'd have to dress in a business suit all the time and listen to Bach. Counter-culture has become the culture.

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