Vorkosigan

Put frankly, isn't trying to get God to talk to you so you can have the benifit of knowing he exists simply selfish? I don't mean that in a bad way: but let's face it, the only person benifiting is you: you've asking it so that you might know the answer for yourself.

What's selfish about it? He just wants confirmation of god's existence from god itself. I mean, if I ask my wife whether she'll be home next week so I can make plans, it's not "selfish" of me. In fact, one could make the opposite case. He'd like to include god in his life, but god childishly refuses to reveal its existence. If I asked my wife her plans and she refused to answer, which one of us would be accounted rude?

Vorkosigan

Autonemesis

That much seems certain.


How can it be the questioner who is selfish? It's no skin off God's nose, if he's omnipotent and omnipresent, to give an sure sign. The questioner has nothing, and no means to obtain what he asks. God has it and is fully able to give it, but apparently not willing. And you say it is the questioner who is selfish? Strange, very strange.

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

rebelnerd

God is not answering his prayer, because god doesn't exist.

This is exactly the kind of double-think that drove me to question religion in the first place. Rather than pretending to know what god thinks or is obligated to do or not do, why not just say "I don't know." If you do know, prove it.

Filo

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Filo Quiggens ]</p>

rebelnerd

Filo

Edited to remove duplicate post

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Filo Quiggens ]</p>

Denshuu

I lack the vocabulary to portray how incredibly cold that is, David. He wanted God in his life, so much so that he prayed when threatened with a loss of faith. Supposedly, faith in God leads to eternal life in heaven with Him, and so leads to eternal happiness. Then, on the other hand, with a lack of faith he is threatened with eternal damnation - whether you see that to be an everburning lake of fire with eternal darkness and the gnashing of teeth (like the Bible teaches), or simply eternal separation from God. Yet, when faced with this, you're blaming him for complaining? Blaming him for simply having a want to be with your supposedly all-loving God who's knowingly standing idly by while he slips further away from eternal happiness because He isn't "obligated to do so?" Not only is that a ridiculous notion, but it's also the polar opposite of what an all-loving God would do.

Not once in his post did he say that he wanted God to condemn him. He only wished for God to give one sign, just one speck of evidence that He existed. I've seen your posts before, so I don't want to come off as being prejudgemental, but you seem like a very nice, moral person. But do you sincerely see absolutely nothing wrong with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God refusing to save one of His children simply because "he is not obligated to?"

Tom Sawyer

You know, this discussion reminds me of a Simpson's episode. Homer was deciding whether or not he should take the last doughnut.

Homer: "Lord, if you wish me to eat this doughnut, give me absolutely no sign whatsoever."

[Waits a moment, God gives him no sign]

Homer: "Thy will be done."

[Eats the doughnut]

Theli

I said it before and I'll say it again.
If you expect to get a sign from god, but have no idea how that sign with apear, you will interpret any events or feelings that seems out of the ordinary as a sign from god.
An irrational conclution based on false prior knowledge.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

If you need proof, don't bother with God. It takes the point of faith away.

Tercel

Um, what else except selfish (okay, possible arrogant and silly) is saying "God if you don't satisfy my curiosity with regard to the question of your existence, then I'm not going to believe in you! So you'd better tell me - or else!"

Clearly if the creator of the universe does not deliver on demand then we should be offended. After, all we have every right to demand anything we want from God and threaten him with consequences for failing to act as we demand... ...not!

"Mommy if you don't buy me an Ice Cream NOW, I'm going to throw a tantrum!"

Zippy

It's more arrogant that God - who is apparently everywhere at once anyway - can't be bothered to prove that he exists.

He's basically saying 'Be gullible - believe in me, or you'll go to hell! Stop using those brains I gave you!'

If anyone here has a silly, arrogant attitude it's the bloke upstairs with the big beard.

Paul