Viti

Do any other religions require "Last Rites"? I know it is important for Catholics...so other than that I see no reason to include this on dogtags...they have files and computer data for actual services after the fact.

I informed UCLA that "No religious Preference" meant NO FUCKING PREACHERS were to visit me! They were somewhat surprised as they do not have priests and such roaming around freely as many many hospitals do.

Edited because I am stupid and Diana caught it

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]</p>

diana

You have the right to remain silent.
You have the right to lie there gasping for air and bleeding to death.
If you desire a doctor, one will be appointed to you by the military....

Perhaps you meant "last rites"?

And I always thought that was the reason religion was on dogtags (and military chaplains), as well--so those of a Catholic bent could be blessed as they died for their country. I don't know of any other religion that feels the need to bless the dying, though.

joedad brings up an interesting point, though: religious preference on dogtags opens the door for discrimination in prison camps--which I'd think would be of primary concern as we fight our "[holy] war against terrorism."

joedad...I don't think you can get them printed with nothing on there anymore. I'm pretty sure that if you don't declare, they'll put "No Religious Preference." They apparently feel some driving need to fill that space, by god...the obsessive compulsive bastards.

I've had a number of things printed on mine. To wit:

CH OF CHRIST
AGNOSTIC
ATHEIST
INFIDEL

In that order. My dog tags trace my religious evolution. (I went with infidel because too many people look up atheist in Webster's and read "one who denies the existence of God"--and I take exception to that definition.)

I'm thinking of having HEDONIST printed on the next set....

Aw, come on now. What an amusing way to pass the time. Let some unsuspecting preacher wander in and start trying to save you, Lady.

I'd buy tickets to see that.

d

Viti

shit d, I was in pain and on drugs....the poor preacher would have thought he had stumbled onto the personification of evil.

enrious

(LadyShea)"Do any other religions require "Last Rites"? I know it is important for Catholics...so other than that I see no reason to include this on dogtags...they have files and computer data for actual services after the fact."

(diana)"And I always thought that was the reason religion was on dogtags (and military chaplains), as well--so those of a Catholic bent could be blessed as they died for their country. I don't know of any other religion that feels the need to bless the dying, though"

Two things I think y'all are missing:

1) Computer records and time to search for them are not always available to front line units in the middle of battle. There may be religions other than Catholocism that wants a service performed as quickly as possible.

Something I've been told by more than one combat vet was that when they saw the chaplain perform some sort of ritual for a fallen comerade, it helped the rest start to accept the loss.

2) That information is used by corpsmen and chaplains alike to help comfort the wounded and dying. It can serve as an ice-breaker conversation to get the wounded person's mind off their wounds or comfort to a dying person to talk about that person's strength in their faith.

I did my MOS training at one of the places where the corpsmen were trained and I got to know many of the corpsmen students. One of the things I picked up from all of them was how important it was to talk to the wounded and how any thing that could be used to help focus that person's mind on living could help.

A quick glance at a dogtag by a corpsman or chaplain could help with an approach for this.

Liquidrage

As can be seen on the 1st page of that above mentioned few month old topic, I had Atheist on my military dog tags.

Maybe I'll scan em in this weekend and post pics just for all you doubters

Liquidrage

Oh, but maybe I should share the story of how I got atheist on my tags.

When you join the military a lot of paper work is done on you. Mostly it is done by recruiters.

When filling out the paper work the recruiter would ask me questions, I'd answer, he'd fill out the form for me. Only if I had to sign something did I read over his handy-work.

One of the question he asked was "What religion are you?".
I of course answered that I didn't have one.
He didn't flinch and it went on like nothing happened.

Fast forward about 9 months.

I'm now in basic training.
I had only been there a few days and I was going through the line getting things like ID cards, dental X-ray and of course dog tags.

The lady (she wasn't military, just a GS) doing the tags went over the information that would appear on the tags with me.
One thing she said was
"No religious preference".

Just out of curiosity I asked,
"How many choices are there?"

She said a lot and showed me the list. It was easily around 100. Agnostic and Atheist were on there. Pretty much anything you could think of.
So of course I switched mine to atheist.

They don't care what you are. Unless you ask for atheist, they aren't going to let you know it's there. But they also don't have any desire to let you know "Southern Baptist" is a different option from "Baptist".

One thing I noticed about todays military (I was AD 96-01) is even though a lot of people wont like that you're atheist, no one will even think of questioning you on it. (at least IME).
The military has put a HUGE focus on acceptance of all people. And they really do practice what they preach.
It's one of the reasons I can differentiate between the Government and the military so easily.
I've seen the military and it is mostly a bunch of people that didn't have many choices in life but wanted a chance to change that.

I just wish those that control the military (the Gov.) would change a little for the better.

Sabine Grant

ENRIOUS : I agree with you that it is helpful for the rest of the unit. I think any decent soldier will bow their head by a dying man whether he is a theist or a non theist. We tend to unify as we face death.

In time of tragedy, certain issues are not issues anylonger. We tend to forsake our need to have rights. We only feel the tragedy.

Cheer up anyone who does not have a religious preference on their tag....noone will make you wear a yellow star.

So what if a person is persecuted or dies because of their faith? it is part of the package in most main stream religions. Why all that concern for the consequences that can result from advertising one faith or the other. A true christian is not concerned about dying for being a christian. Many have been killed for confessing their faith.

Have any of you considered not carrying an american passport as you travel overseas considering how americans are not so popular with extremist islamic groups?

Are we to conceal our nationality, religion, lack of it, race etc... because we may become victims?

I have no problems with religious affiliation on military tags. No problems with an atheist prefering to have atheist or a blank on it.

Viti

Many many people choose not to travel to certain countries depending on the situation. I wanted to take my Mom to Egypt this year...but will not go anywhere near that part of the world on an American passport anytime soon.

joedad

Spare me the homily, Sabine. Maybe a true american isn't concerned about dying for being an american. The idea is to keep soldiers alive.

Personally, I couldn't care less about religious affiliation in a military setting. My point is whether pointing it out needlessly endangers the wearer. I think it does. I wouldn't want to think I got someone killed by doing so, and that is a distinct possibility today.

I'm trying to locate a copy of the reg, but coming up empty. No surprise really.

joe

enrious

I agree.

Quote:

Personally, I couldn't care less about religious affiliation in a military setting. My point is whether pointing it out needlessly endangers the wearer. I think it does. I wouldn't want to think I got someone killed by doing so, and that is a distinct possibility today.

I disagree. In fact, I'd think having "No Preference" would make you stand out less than "Atheist"