Freethought & Rationalism Archive

xsquid · 07-19-2003, 03:53 AM

Soviet Military Power was the name of a Defense Dept. propaganda paper. 3 different ones were published during the Reagan Era, showing how the Big Red Machine was gradually expanding, how their tank manufacturing plant in the Urals was bigger in area than the Mall in Washington, how they were building new shit-hot super-fighter planes, how they had 300 submarines to our 120, and how they spent 13% of their GNP on their military.
The 1984 edition was the best.

What is not widely known is that the USSR produced a counterpoint to SMP. It was called Whence the Threat to Peace, and made a very plausible argument that the USA was the true danger. They pointed out that we had 13 carriers while they had only 2; that our tank manufacturing plant was even bigger than theirs; that it was the USA who developed nuclear weapons and has actually used them (always a good argument to use on the Europeans and especially Japan), and that it was we who had established bases/treaties with Turkey, Germany, Sweden, Korea and Japan, among others, surrounding the Motherland with a ring of men and machines to keep them contained. I bought a copy when my ship was in Singapore once; I got away with it by showing it to my division officer (I was attached to Intelligence then). He sent me to get more, and everyone read it.
We all know now what was true and what wasn't... Both publications had some merit, and both screwed the truth for the sake of bigger budgets and better weapons.
They're the only real Cold War relics I have; I prefer the spy movies of that era!

Sakpo · 07-19-2003, 01:20 PM

This sort of thing was on my mind because I was stopping by the home of a guy I know is really into this sort of thing (as in, he's a historian focusing on the Cold War). I love whenever I get to peak into his home, he's not just a Cold War expert, but a total Slavophile/Russophile, so he has lots of cool stuff. He's a really interesting guy, speaks several languages, etc. Anyway, he always shows me neat stuff (samovars, fake "authentic old" Russian icons, genuine art, books, pamphlets etc). Anyway, guess what I got (he gave me something)? A tourism pamphlet from the former Yugoslavia, aimed at French communists. It has enough pictures, and I can muddle my way through French enough, that I'm very entertained by it (I mean, really it's just a piece of old garbage, but highly interesting, historically relevant old garbage). It's great... have a nice vacation, on a sunny beach, and get to visit, if only for a short time, a worker's paradise. I guess they (the Yugoslav government) wanted/needed to bring in foreign currency ?

I mentioned this thread to my dad, and he showed me a very personal item. The letter from a school principal of his to his father explaining his expulsion (my dads father was stationed elsewhere in the military, but knew the principal personally, so I suppose a letter was in order)... there was a long list of stuff (not really cold war related at all), but apparently the final straw was my dad questioning what use hiding under their desks would do if the city they were in had an atomic bomb dropped on it, after they had a nuclear war drill. The language used is quite funny (very typical cold war rhetoric... but since it is a private letter he'd never shown me before, I don't think I should quote from it). I'm not suprised the letter survived, nobody on my dad's side of the family has ever thrown a piece of paper away, though I am sort of suprised that my dad got his hands on it. Anyway, it's pretty cool. It's from 1959.

id.s · 07-19-2003, 02:23 PM

Good point about duck and cover. I remember a civil defense poster- What to do when the bomb is dropped. Goes through 6 pictures of you undressing and finally bending over as far as you can and kissing your ass goodbye.

Tharmas · 07-19-2003, 03:47 PM

Many of the small town corthouses and other public buildings in Texas still sport yellow civil defense "fallout shelter" signs. As for me, I still have my draft card. I lived in Canada for five years and had to show it every time I cossed back over the border.

WWSD · 07-19-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakpo
Out with it, what stuff do you have lying around from the Cold War period...

Nuclear war anxiety. Still comes in handy what with NK and all.

Monkeybot · 07-19-2003, 10:26 PM

Poking around in the dank, dusty eighth floor of my university library, I once found a book called "RED CHINA'S FIGHTING HORDES." It was written by a guy who had been captured by the Chinese during the Korean war, and who had been forced to stand trial for something (I think, I don't remember exactly). So yeah, we're talking about the cold, clear voice of objectivity here...

Needless to say, the book is pretty outrageous, complete with illustrations that make Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's look like a delicately nuanced character study. By now, of course, the book is so over the top as to be morbidly amusing. The author is so unremitting in his hatred of the Chinese that he can hardly keep his story straight. For example, he paints the Chinese army as a ragtag, pathetically undersupplied army (thanks to their Communist government, of course -- the war against Japan and the Nationalists apparently don't count). However, the entire foundation of the book seems to be that Communist China is a menace to Western civilization, etc.... (admittedly, I could only bring myself to skim the book, so maybe I missed some of the finer nuances).

You're probably wondering how I know so much about this book. Basically, it's like a 20-car pileup on the highway: absolutely horrifying, but you can't take your eyes off it.

lunachick · 07-19-2003, 10:41 PM

I used to have a huge "Gone With The Wind" poster, featuring Ronald Raygun and Maggie Thatcher as Scarlett and Rhett.

And I have some photographs I took out at sea when I was on a cruise with the family in 1975. We were on a Russian ship called the Fedor Shalyapin (sp?). All the staff were Russian, and we rendevous'd with a Russian cargo ship in the very early hours of the morning, mid-pacific. A couple of people were taken off our boat, and replaced with new people. Intriguing. I felt like a secret agent kid - hiding and taking pictures with my secret agent cam.

Sakpo · 07-19-2003, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeybot
Poking around in the dank, dusty eighth floor of my university library, I once found a book called "RED CHINA'S FIGHTING HORDES." It was written by a guy who had been captured by the Chinese during the Korean war, and who had been forced to stand trial for something (I think, I don't remember exactly). So yeah, we're talking about the cold, clear voice of objectivity here...

Needless to say, the book is pretty outrageous, complete with illustrations that make Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's look like a delicately nuanced character study. By now, of course, the book is so over the top as to be morbidly amusing. The author is so unremitting in his hatred of the Chinese that he can hardly keep his story straight. For example, he paints the Chinese army as a ragtag, pathetically undersupplied army (thanks to their Communist government, of course -- the war against Japan and the Nationalists apparently don't count). However, the entire foundation of the book seems to be that Communist China is a menace to Western civilization, etc.... (admittedly, I could only bring myself to skim the book, so maybe I missed some of the finer nuances).

You're probably wondering how I know so much about this book. Basically, it's like a 20-car pileup on the highway: absolutely horrifying, but you can't take your eyes off it.

That's exactly the sort of crap I was hoping to hear about! I love things like that.

Kilted Canuck · 07-20-2003, 02:19 AM

Well, since I was born in '86, all I remember of the cold war was the picture of the bald guy with the red island on his head (Gorba-somebody), but I have some stuff from that weird period.

Starship Troopers-with those hated commie-bugs
Hunt For Red October- with those hated commies
Old propaghanda comic books-duck and cover!

What were people thinking?

never been there · 07-20-2003, 09:50 AM

I have a few copies of the Cuban newspaper Granma. Good cold war stuff, dated February 2003.

As far as I could tell, no-one reads it but us tourists.

07-19-2003, 02:23 PM	#13
id.s Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: VICTORIA B. C. CANADA Posts: 206	get the distilled water, get the toilet paper Good point about duck and cover. I remember a civil defense poster- What to do when the bomb is dropped. Goes through 6 pictures of you undressing and finally bending over as far as you can and kissing your ass goodbye.

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07-19-2003, 03:53 AM	#11
xsquid Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: oasis in the ocean Posts: 353	Soviet Military Power was the name of a Defense Dept. propaganda paper. 3 different ones were published during the Reagan Era, showing how the Big Red Machine was gradually expanding, how their tank manufacturing plant in the Urals was bigger in area than the Mall in Washington, how they were building new shit-hot super-fighter planes, how they had 300 submarines to our 120, and how they spent 13% of their GNP on their military. The 1984 edition was the best. What is not widely known is that the USSR produced a counterpoint to SMP. It was called Whence the Threat to Peace, and made a very plausible argument that the USA was the true danger. They pointed out that we had 13 carriers while they had only 2; that our tank manufacturing plant was even bigger than theirs; that it was the USA who developed nuclear weapons and has actually used them (always a good argument to use on the Europeans and especially Japan), and that it was we who had established bases/treaties with Turkey, Germany, Sweden, Korea and Japan, among others, surrounding the Motherland with a ring of men and machines to keep them contained. I bought a copy when my ship was in Singapore once; I got away with it by showing it to my division officer (I was attached to Intelligence then). He sent me to get more, and everyone read it. We all know now what was true and what wasn't... Both publications had some merit, and both screwed the truth for the sake of bigger budgets and better weapons. They're the only real Cold War relics I have; I prefer the spy movies of that era!

07-19-2003, 01:20 PM	#12
Sakpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Pacific Northwest (illegally occupied indigenous l Posts: 7,716	This sort of thing was on my mind because I was stopping by the home of a guy I know is really into this sort of thing (as in, he's a historian focusing on the Cold War). I love whenever I get to peak into his home, he's not just a Cold War expert, but a total Slavophile/Russophile, so he has lots of cool stuff. He's a really interesting guy, speaks several languages, etc. Anyway, he always shows me neat stuff (samovars, fake "authentic old" Russian icons, genuine art, books, pamphlets etc). Anyway, guess what I got (he gave me something)? A tourism pamphlet from the former Yugoslavia, aimed at French communists. It has enough pictures, and I can muddle my way through French enough, that I'm very entertained by it (I mean, really it's just a piece of old garbage, but highly interesting, historically relevant old garbage). It's great... have a nice vacation, on a sunny beach, and get to visit, if only for a short time, a worker's paradise. I guess they (the Yugoslav government) wanted/needed to bring in foreign currency ? I mentioned this thread to my dad, and he showed me a very personal item. The letter from a school principal of his to his father explaining his expulsion (my dads father was stationed elsewhere in the military, but knew the principal personally, so I suppose a letter was in order)... there was a long list of stuff (not really cold war related at all), but apparently the final straw was my dad questioning what use hiding under their desks would do if the city they were in had an atomic bomb dropped on it, after they had a nuclear war drill. The language used is quite funny (very typical cold war rhetoric... but since it is a private letter he'd never shown me before, I don't think I should quote from it). I'm not suprised the letter survived, nobody on my dad's side of the family has ever thrown a piece of paper away, though I am sort of suprised that my dad got his hands on it. Anyway, it's pretty cool. It's from 1959.

07-19-2003, 03:47 PM	#14
Tharmas Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dallas Posts: 184	Many of the small town corthouses and other public buildings in Texas still sport yellow civil defense "fallout shelter" signs. As for me, I still have my draft card. I lived in Canada for five years and had to show it every time I cossed back over the border.

07-19-2003, 10:26 PM	#16
Monkeybot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,102	Poking around in the dank, dusty eighth floor of my university library, I once found a book called "RED CHINA'S FIGHTING HORDES." It was written by a guy who had been captured by the Chinese during the Korean war, and who had been forced to stand trial for something (I think, I don't remember exactly). So yeah, we're talking about the cold, clear voice of objectivity here... Needless to say, the book is pretty outrageous, complete with illustrations that make Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's look like a delicately nuanced character study. By now, of course, the book is so over the top as to be morbidly amusing. The author is so unremitting in his hatred of the Chinese that he can hardly keep his story straight. For example, he paints the Chinese army as a ragtag, pathetically undersupplied army (thanks to their Communist government, of course -- the war against Japan and the Nationalists apparently don't count). However, the entire foundation of the book seems to be that Communist China is a menace to Western civilization, etc.... (admittedly, I could only bring myself to skim the book, so maybe I missed some of the finer nuances). You're probably wondering how I know so much about this book. Basically, it's like a 20-car pileup on the highway: absolutely horrifying, but you can't take your eyes off it.

07-19-2003, 10:41 PM	#17
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	I used to have a huge "Gone With The Wind" poster, featuring Ronald Raygun and Maggie Thatcher as Scarlett and Rhett. And I have some photographs I took out at sea when I was on a cruise with the family in 1975. We were on a Russian ship called the Fedor Shalyapin (sp?). All the staff were Russian, and we rendevous'd with a Russian cargo ship in the very early hours of the morning, mid-pacific. A couple of people were taken off our boat, and replaced with new people. Intriguing. I felt like a secret agent kid - hiding and taking pictures with my secret agent cam.

07-20-2003, 02:19 AM	#19
Kilted Canuck Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 127	Well, since I was born in '86, all I remember of the cold war was the picture of the bald guy with the red island on his head (Gorba-somebody), but I have some stuff from that weird period. Starship Troopers-with those hated commie-bugs Hunt For Red October- with those hated commies Old propaghanda comic books-duck and cover! What were people thinking?

07-20-2003, 09:50 AM	#20
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	I have a few copies of the Cuban newspaper Granma. Good cold war stuff, dated February 2003. As far as I could tell, no-one reads it but us tourists.

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