scigirl

yguy - thanks, but I deserved it. A post from scigirl isn't worth responding to unless it has a pubmed or a webmd excerpt in it.

One more point to fatherphil. I just noticed that you made this comment earlier:
The word that stuck out here is need. Are you saying that those people didn't really need the drug in the first place? Or are you saying that despite their actual need of the drug, the drug was still immoral?

scigirl

scigirl

Hey Gurdur,

I've read similar reports of the Netherlands statistics. I was wondering - do you have any links handy?

Also, do you know if the Netherlands saw a decrease in the hard core drugs after they legalized pot? My guess is that they have always had less of a problem than the United States, but if pot legalization is temporally linked to a further decrease in hard core drug usage, that would be very damaging to the movement to keep marijuana a criminal offense**.

Thanks,

scigirl

** Of course I'm making an assumption here that policymakers even consider actual scientific data to start with, and that's a very unlikely assumption I'm afraid.

Gurdur

Problem is, 'm lazy, so I tend to operate off memory all the time.
However, as you know, I'ld cut off and gnaw my right hand for you, so I'm busily looking for links and hard info.
It will take me a day or so to really find things, so I'll be back later with proper results.

In the meantime:

Country Profiles of qualitative (drug-abuse) research in each EU member country

or this: Comparison of the number of hard drug addicts under the Dutch Drugs Policy compared with other European Countries

or this: Comparative drug usage between countries

or this: Country comparison: The Netherlands

or this:
then:
or this:

yguy

Unfortunately, the Netherlands is rotting away from within, and is being openly infiltrated by Islamic terrorists as we speak; because the same lack of moral resolve which prompted the Dutch to acquiesce to those who promoted licentiousness as a virtue compels them to acquiesce to the intimidation of the Arab European League.

Gurdur

I guess you didn't bother reading the stats I cited just above.
The Netherlands is a hell of a lot less rotted than the USA.

I suggest the FBI should investigate your curiously omniscient knowledge on this.

Read the stats, and the official Dutch government policy (links given above)
Do you have any proof of this ?
Or is this some wild flight of rhetoric ?

yguy, I'm disappointed in you. Normally you can manage at least some stats or evidence. Sad how the mighty tumble.

yguy

The statistics only address drug use. Amsterdam harbors an advocacy journal for pedophilia called Paidika, while mainstream homosexuals in America have utterly repudiated NAMBLA to the point that it is now essentially impotent as a propaganda tool for pedophilia pushers. So while America is indeed rotting from within, Holland is obviously a few years ahead of us.

We have enough problems along those lines here.

http://www.arabeuropean.org/News/ael-holland1.html

During the week of lectures held by Dyab Abou Jahjah the interest within the community was very high and the enthusiasm was total. Also membership is booming, we started the week with 250 registered members and ended it with 550 members and new members are still flowing by dozens. Abou Jahjah told our correspondent tonight that he believes the Dutch branches will be one of the strongest branches of the AEL. He added that even though our community in Holland has a better socio-economical situation than in Belgium , the anti-Muslim attitudes in the Netherlands are more aggressive and outspoken."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4489526,00.html

Mr Abou Jahjah, who has organised "lively" pro-Palestinian demonstrations in Antwerp and who doesn't hide his sympathies with groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas, would seem, however, to mark a change in tactics.

It is perhaps safe to assume that the reality behind the facts presented here is more ominous than their superficial content.

scigirl

yguy - you say amsterdam harbors this group? Well america harbors plenty of nutjobs, but that doesn't mean that america itself, and its policies, are immoral. Furthermore, it does not have anything, repeat [/i]anything[/i] to do with the FACT that the netherlands big "experiment" on drug legalization outright disproves the claim that legalizing marijuana will lead to use of more hardcore drugs.

Wahh, how come nobody sticks to the science stuff we post? I'm changing my name to insultgirl cuz that's all anyone addresses anyways.

pouts

scigirl

yguy

It seems to me that advocacy of pedophilia is at least an order of magnitude worse than even white supremacy or any other fringe ideology you could name which has enough of a following to draw media attention.

I have never argued the point that way, and in fact rolling back such legalization of MJ as has happened in CA and OR is not my biggest concern. Drug use doesn't cause immorality - it facilitates it. I think we need to look at why people take drugs that they don't need, because a nation can't be any better than the character of the people who constitute it.



If fatherphil doesn't answer you in the next day or two, I'll take a crack at your posts...but as you probably know by now, I'm not that impressed by empirical data as a rule, and we may not be able to connect that well - so I'll give him the first shot at you.

scigirl

Well I'll keep that in mind - how about completely fabricated data? I can read websites such as this one to get ideas on how to either compeletly twist empirical data, or just fabricate it out of thin air.



You don't have to wait for fatherphil if you don't want to - you can both tear into my post.

scigirl

Gurdur

If you prefer, Scigirl, I'll stick to providing dry crime and drugs stats, or even duck out completely, rather than run the risk of inadvertantly aiding derailment of the thread and your argument.
It's your call; serious offer.