Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Marcel · 05-23-2003, 02:03 AM

If the universe is All There Is, then any god is redundant, or just a part of this greater, all-encompassing universe.

Maybe the psychology of pantheism sprouts from some kind of over-enthusiastic appreciation for what existance is about. It could have arisen from the theodicy view, which was later on abstracted into pantheism.

Well, no matter how wicked and corrupted non-godly creations can be; it is generally acknowledged by christians that God had also created evil.

I wonder how pantheism differs from deism. I assume that it is the same concept.

Pantheism = atheism!

Jet Grind · 05-24-2003, 08:54 AM

Marcel,

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcel
I wonder how pantheism differs from deism. I assume that it is the same concept.

Pantheism = God is the universe.

Deism = God created the universe, and then left it alone.

Quote:

Originaly posted by Marcel
Pantheism = atheism!

Ditto.

111111 · 05-24-2003, 10:38 AM

I find the pantheism of individuals such as Spinoza to be intriguiging, as far as mystical thought goes. Perhaps God and His Creation are inseperable; perhaps the universe bore God out of it's womb; or perhaps they came about through processes even more imcoprehensible?

Does a Man need God or other deity-forms in order to live a full, spiritually-fulfilling life? No. All one needs, for the crudest understanding of spirituality and insight, is wonderment and awe. No Deities required.

omnia · 05-24-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcel
If the universe is All There Is, then any god is redundant, or just a part of this greater, all-encompassing universe.

Can't something be greater than the sum of its parts? If the universe is All There Is, it could be simply there. Pantheism takes the view that this is not the case, and that the universe has some greater quality than existence. Or such is my understanding. Perhaps the problem you see is the word "god." Usually god is considered outside or independent in some way from the universe, whereas pantheism says that the universe, including us, is god. This could imply the universe has some consciousness, although that is about as anthropomorphic as you could make god.

Quote:

Maybe the psychology of pantheism sprouts from some kind of over-enthusiastic appreciation for what existance is about.

Well I can't argue with that.

Quote:

I wonder how pantheism differs from deism. I assume that it is the same concept.

What Jet Grind said.

cum deo omnia redicula sunt

Miss Piggy · 05-26-2003, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcel

Maybe the psychology of pantheism sprouts from some kind of over-enthusiastic appreciation for what existance is about.

If pantheism is over-enthusiastic, then what is the suitable level of enthusianism?

As somebody already said in this thread, pantheism is probably more of an attitude / way of experiencing things than a belief system.

I don't think most pantheists see the universe as all good and positive. Most of them probably think that the good and the evil are just "different perspectives" etc.

Supergirl · 06-02-2003, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
Something like Gaia Theory, perhaps?

No. Gaia Theory states that earth has consciousness (it is aware). Pantheism excludes consciousness form the universe or god.

Supergirl · 06-02-2003, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andy_d
Islam sort of tends in that direction, too (or at least that's my understanding from my extremely limited knowledge of Islam) They believe that all things are an expression of god.

I'd rather compare pantheism with monism than Islam/ Hindu.

The pantheist does not see the universe as an expression of god. Rather that the universe is god. Pantheists belief "I am god/ you are god"

Supergirl · 06-02-2003, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JTVrocher
Hi Saut,

I accept pantheism as a valid understanding of the universe. All things are Divine. All things are living. The universe is alive.

Please tell me that by "the universe is alive" you do not imply consciousness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Supergirl · 06-02-2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcel

I wonder how pantheism differs from deism. I assume that it is the same concept.

No. Deism's premise is that god created the universe and moved on to better things afterwards.

Pantheism's premise is not based in creationism! Nothing created anything! It just happened; humans can observe it (because the mind evolved/ progressed into a state of consciousness and made us aware).

TomboyMom · 06-04-2003, 12:57 PM

Seraphim said:

Quote:

My notion of them is simple - Muslims are the MOST arrogant, ignorant and close-minded bunch on the face of the Earth. If you compare them to Christians, they will pale you in comparisons.

You might be right, Seraphim, but they have some close contenders. Met any Mormons?

Rene

05-23-2003, 02:03 AM	#21
Marcel Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Voorschoten (Netherlands) Posts: 131	The universe If the universe is All There Is, then any god is redundant, or just a part of this greater, all-encompassing universe. Maybe the psychology of pantheism sprouts from some kind of over-enthusiastic appreciation for what existance is about. It could have arisen from the theodicy view, which was later on abstracted into pantheism. Well, no matter how wicked and corrupted non-godly creations can be; it is generally acknowledged by christians that God had also created evil. I wonder how pantheism differs from deism. I assume that it is the same concept. Pantheism = atheism!

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05-24-2003, 10:38 AM	#23
111111 Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 35	I find the pantheism of individuals such as Spinoza to be intriguiging, as far as mystical thought goes. Perhaps God and His Creation are inseperable; perhaps the universe bore God out of it's womb; or perhaps they came about through processes even more imcoprehensible? Does a Man need God or other deity-forms in order to live a full, spiritually-fulfilling life? No. All one needs, for the crudest understanding of spirituality and insight, is wonderment and awe. No Deities required.

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