Seraphim

"The only similarity between atheism and buddhism is that buddhists are not obligated to believe in God."

My reply : That could make Gautama a Deist not a Atheist. Last time I checked, Atheist do not believe in Souls or reincarnation, two concept very strong in Buddhism.

Devilnaut

Seraphim, I'm not all that familiar with Gautama so I am not sure how to interpret your reply.


But, I will say that there is nothing contradictory about being an atheist and believing in reincarnation or souls, nor is there anything contradictory about being a buddhist and not believing in the above.

I'm not sure what your point is exactly..

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Devilnaut ]</p>

Seraphim

Prince Gautama of Saykha clan is the name given to Buddha before he become enlightened. Buddha simply means "the Enlightened One" and can be considered as a title rather than a name.

fcuk

i was under the impression that to be an atheist, you must not believe in any gods or goddesses.

i was not aware that one could not believe in an afterlife? not that i do, per se, just trying to clarify the various stages of atheism.

Seraphim

OK, you guys totally lost me ...

Is there a stage of believe in Atheism or what? Meaning that you with this and that beliefs are in one stage, and the next guy with this and that belief (or lack) is in another stage etc.

fcuk

i am totally lost, too. that is one of the reasons i've sought out this forum. i have been told that there are 'weak' and 'strong' and 'metaphysical' atheists. i'm assuming that you work your way up from 'weak' to 'strong' and i have no idea what a 'metaphysical' atheist is.

Seraphim

Have anyone told you guys that you are confusing?

What is Weak Atheist supposed? Those who still have some faith in some God somewhere?

Strong Atheist is supposed be ... what? those with no faith whatsoever?

And those Metaphysical type is what? That one is out of the scope because it seems to fit in the middle between a Weak and a Strong.

If this is the case, I guess we can conclude that Gautama Buddha could be a Weak Atheist, since he believed in things like Soul and Reincarnation.

Devilnaut

Heheh.. I hope I didn't contribute to the confusion. Let me try to clarify!

Generally speaking, a strong atheist is someone who believes that no gods exist. A weak atheist is just anyone who doesn't believe that any gods exist. Personally I don't see a real difference, so I don't use the terms.

As far as belief in the afterlife, an atheist is defined simply as someone who does not believe in the existence of any deity. In so far as you can still manage to believe in an afterlife and not believe in a deity, you are still an atheist.

Pretty simple.

Atheism is not a worldview or a set of philosophical goals or viewpoints. It is simply the lack of belief in the existence of a deity! That's it.

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Devilnaut ]</p>

Seraphim

There's a question ... why do you need to believe something?

lugotorix

No, actually a Deist is someone who believes that a God created the universe with all its natural laws in place, and then left it alone. It was a very popular viewpoint in the late 18th century in Europe and America (most of our first Presidents were Deists). It's an attempt to reconcile the scientific advances of the Enlightenment period with an inability to explain the beginning of the universe.

BTW, if you you want fuller definitions of terms like weak atheist, etc,you can check <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/definition.html" target="_blank">Theodore Drange's article</a> in the Infidels' Library.

Not really. That is wrong on both counts (with respect to Buddhism and to atheism). Firstly, the concept of a soul or atman was specifically denied by the Buddha. It's a cornerstone of his teaching, one of the distinctive things about it. And reincarnation only figures strongly in some Buddhist traditions (Tibetan, for example). I know of at least one Buddhist teacher (the Thai forest monk Buddhadasa Bhikkhu) who taught that Buddha did not believe in reincarnation, but used it as a metaphor, one that was later taken literally.

As far as atheism is concerned, the only thing it entails is the non-belief in a god or gods. On these forums, atheists are also usually metaphysical naturalists, meaning that they don't believe in souls, reincarnation, spirits, or other extra-worldly things. But it's possible to be an atheist and believe in the existence of a metaphysical realm.

As to the quote you were responding to, since we can agree that Buddhists are not obligated to believe in god, and that an atheist is someone who does not believe in god, it is possible to be both. I know because I am both.

lugotorix

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: lugotorix ]</p>