Pseudonymph

thanks for pointing that out to me...how bout I just refer to you as DBP from now on? that might be easier for us all...lol

Mad Kally

You didn't surprise me..

Eudaimonist

I just want to be a human being. This is totally consistent with non-theism.

Americans do that every four years. Sometimes those higher powers get two terms though.

It is neither arrogant nor pompous if it is true. Reality is what it is.

Ditto.

Madame Cleo hasn't seemed very happy lately.

All that matters as far as truth goes is reality. No intelligent higher powers as far as I can see. (Sorry, George Bush!)

MadKally

Scream: IS THERE A HAPPY MEDIUM?

Given a choice of having religion throw away our freedom, our honor, and our future or having my bicuspids extracted sans Novocaine, I would embrace the pliers, purchase some Polident Partials, and call it a day. Don't kid yourself: Religion's premise (that it is a perpetual victim of injustice) is its morality disguised as pretended neutrality. Religion uses this disguised morality to support its snow jobs, thereby making its argument self-refuting.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

MadKally

SIREN: Lately some things have been unusual. I'm begginning to doubt my lack of beliefs! is that weird?

Not weird at all you sneaky little xian!

Pseudonymph

I figured some people would think this...sorry but no such luck.

Sephiroth

That's a relief . Come down to Georgia and I'll introduce you to a couple...million.

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Sephiroth ]</p>

freemonkey

Good call, you sneaky little sock puppet!

braces_for_impact

Interesting. I don't regard atheism as a belief, but a lack of a belief. Everyone doubts their beliefs now and then, but once I made my choice to be an atheist (and it was a long, researched struggle), I have never turned back. Why? My lack of belief is based on intellectual integrity, and moral honesty. To me, it is dishonest and irrational to live on faith. I require evidence and reason. To go back to the xtian I once was, would be to me, turning dishonest, something my concience will not allow.

I wonder if you were once a xtian. You seem to have this mindset where you are either right or wrong, with no shades of grey in between. Certainly others on this board have told you about deism, and that is as valid a choice as atheism or xtianity. Remember you have choice, regardless of what others say.

Personally, I see humankind in a natural, cold universe that neither recognizes us nor our plight. I do not believe in an afterlife, based on lack of evidence. To me, this is the only chance we get, so I do the best I can while I'm here.

I am often told by xtians (and I hope you understand why this makes some people suspicious of you and your motives) that people are atheists because they do not wish to subscribe to anyone being in a state of authority over them, and they do not wish to be responsible for their own actions. I find this far from the truth. Atheism means that you are the only one that *can* be responsible for your own actions. There's no devil to tempt me, no divine plan or god's will to go against. As for the authority issue, people are in authority over us all the time. In fact many times the same people that have authority over xtians have the same authority over those whom are secular. Atheists have a boss at work, police who pull them over for speeding, laws which are in place they must follow, etc. Perhaps atheists have a bit more "wiggle room" than theists, and this could be misinterpreted as arrogance. Though I think most atheists would deny we are in charge of our own destiny, as any number of things can and do remove power from us (natural disasters, plain old bad luk, etc.), I do think atheists feel they have a bit more freedom of action. They are not part of some divine plan, and thus there is no predestination involved. Most atheists I know are very intellectual. Many of them have very strong feelings on certain topics, and have taken a great deal of time to research those topics. If one is firm in their stance because they feel they are absolutely right based on all available evidence, that also could be misinterpreted as arrogance.

To me there is no greater arrogance than thinking that a god created this universe solely for humans, sent himself to die for humans, and he is their personal savior, and their very best friend!

A final point. Many theists argue that atheists are arrogant, because they are a minority and theists are a majority. To many theists, an atheist is saying that the majority of the world is wrong in subscribing to a deity of any sort. Is that arrogance? Does overwhelming belief by a majority make something true? Historically as well as today, we can see that it obviously does not.

Eudaimonist

braces_for_impact, that was all very well said.