Fred

I agree.

When discussing a subject such as this it is important to remember that we are not dealing strictly with matters of morals. What we are dealing with is ASSAULT, an attack causing harm, not metaphorical harm, to another human being.
The vast majority of nations on Earth have outlawed this practice, it seems that humans have recognised what these acts are and treated them as such. Assault does not become something else simply because the perpetrator trying to justify himself attempts to cloak his words in philosophical language. Ask any police detective.

TwEek

Amen to that.

Euphemistic language leads to weakness.

God Fearing Atheist

Interestingly, reproductive-aged females suffer the highest level of distress from sexual assaults, probably as an adaptive counter-rape-mechanism (they are the most likely group to fall victim to it, and, in terms of reproductive fitness, have the most to lose).

See Thornhill & Thornhill, 1990, 1983, 1991; Baker & Bellis, 1995.

Personally, I think the outrage at child molestation is probably a fusion of human nepotism and empathy.

-GFA

Dr Rick

Should we assume that "probably" Hispanics have evolved a more "adaptive counter-rape-mechanism" since they also suffer higher levels of distress from rape. (Am J Orthopsychiatry 1993 Oct; 63(4):623-32 Cultural beliefs about rape and victims' response in three ethnic groups. Lefley HP, Scott CS, Llabre M, Hicks D)

How does this adaptive counter-rape mechanism figure into the greater sexual distress more common for women attacked by intimates (Violence Vict 1993 Summer; 8(2):121-34 Victim-offender relationship and sexual assault. Ullman SE, Siegel JM.)?

How does the "adaptive counter-rape-mechanism" explain the strongest predictors for posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) following rape: 1) a history of depression, 2) alcohol abuse, or 3) experienced injury during the rape, and not age or fertility (J Anxiety Disord 1999 Nov-Dec; 13(6):541-63 Risk factors for rape, physical assault, and posttraumatic stress disorder in women: examination of differential multivariate relationships.Acierno R, Resnick H, Kilpatrick DG, Saunders B, Best CL.)?

Is it because "in terms of reproductive fitness, they have the most to lose" that the "adaptive counter-rape-mechanism" so neatly explains the negative correlation with paternal emotional warmth and positive correlation with paternal rejection in the level of emotional trauma experienced by juvenile male rape victims (Child Abuse Negl 1998 Sep;22(9):889-99 Juvenile male rape victims: level of post-traumatic stress related to personality and parenting. Ruchkin VV, Eisemann M, Hagglof B.)?

That a single or even a few statistic fits with a particular concept does not mean that the concept is correct if it can't predict or explain other, related phenomena.

Rick

diana

Gee, Rick. I was just going to ask how the study determines a particular group "suffers the highest level of distress." I'm wondering how they determine this, how this study was done, what the studied groups were (so I know "highest" of whom), and what the controls were.

Now I'm all intimidated and shit.

Have fun in Maui.

d

echidna

From the E/C Evolution of Rape thread, Dr Rick's summary of the pseudoscience behind such sociobiology is worth re-posting, This would basically put sociobiology on a par with the astrologer who (hypothetically ) might "predict" an earthquake, after it had happened.

pax_vobiscum3

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT STATING THAT I CONDONE, ENDORSE or think Positively in ANY WAY about child abuse in any form...saying that.........................



I propose this to any who would like to get really introspective:

Think about how society tends to be hypocritical when it comes to sex. We tell children sex is wonderful, great, but comes with certain risks such as stds, and pregnancy, HOWEVER, YOU(children) are NOT allowed to do it. As a child I would be saying to myself HUH???????....
Let me try to clarify....if people agree, as most do, that sex is beautful when wanted then why not let children 'go at it'. I speak both with another child and or an adult. It would seem to me (now I am NOT talking about any use of PHYSICAL force here) that an adult would be more careful with the child than another child woud, for obvious maturity reasons. The child and adult engage in sex and no physical harm occurs. Now you are probably saying to yourself :"well there is the MENTAL anguish", to that I say, and this is my major POINT...it is SOCIETY as a whole that causes the trauma in children who have had such experiences for if society did not look upon it as wrong(for reasons I went through) and thus the children were not told it was wrong their would be no mental trauma for most cases.
To sum up and bring us back to my beginning point, it is society that is hypocritical and causing the harm.

As I said firstly I do not condone such behaviour but I do so love to point out the hypocrisies in society and try to create thought.

Totalitarianist

Define sexual abuse, please.

echidna

pax_vobiscum3, while society does overly label children who have experienced intergenerational child sex as victims, with words like "abuse", "suffered", "inflicted", some with such experiences even report as adults no lasting trauma or even sense of regret. In a small number of instances they can even be seen as personally positive experiences.

But at the same time, the majority do report deep trauma and only few regard it as a positive experience, with one of the greatest consequences being the affect which it had to damage their ability of trust within personal relationships. Practically, adults have a role as nurturers and protectors of children, and predatory intergenerational child sex (look no further than the clergy, but also common within families), does anything BUT nurture and protect. Clearly self-interested predatory child sex exists as a negative practice and for an individual to come to this realisation that their childhood trust had been so violated, would clearly warrant a sense of deep concern and often trauma. Societal conditioning of such trauma is simply false. Is female circumcision not traumatic to a woman brought up under Shar’ia Law ? Is rape only traumatic to a woman in the U.S. because society tells her so ? No, I think you’ll find some society attitudes are more the product of objective reactions, than the causes of those reactions themselves.

Indeed paedophilia was largely a invisible issue for many decades, a taboo topic simply never discussed either publically or privately. Many of those who experienced intergenerational child sex during that period, subsequently report a massive relief at being able to voice their personal trauma during that time, victim trauma which could not have been societally prescribed, as claimed by those who promote intergenerational child sex, simply because there was no society attitude to the practice, ignored as it was.

No, I reject that all societal attitudes to paedophilia are the product of just societal conditioning.

Fred

While it is possible to put theory Y next to theory B, the fact of the matter is that abuse is not only mental, but physical.
One thing that has shaped the character of one of my sisters, who was raped at age 6, was the pain suffered while she endured her attackers adult penis and his greater strength. This caused physical damage and due to threats against her, she kept quiet. She has had medical problems all her life as a result.
As I discovered through my conversations with detectives and lawyers experienced in these matters it became apparent that children were effected by the entire event. Children do not seem to differentiate, they fear the sexual attacks and the threats of retribution if they speak up, equally. The presence of the adult forcing himself upon a defenceless child seems to have more impact than how society views abuse. My sisters were not aware of societies views when they were attacked, being 6 and 8 they had not yet been exposed to sex education. They were busy playing with their dolls.
Possibly better than asking for a definition of sexual abuse, it may be better to look at a definition of assault. Ultimately that is what sexual abuse is.