Queen of Swords

Originally posted by yguy
If the wife lets him, yes.

Could you please explain how the single factor of respect qualifies a husband to make the final decision? I don't see how respect means a husband gains either the knowledge or the authority to supersede any decision his wife makes.

I would suggest that women marry men who are more intelligent that they are.

Intelligence is not such an easy attribute to define. For example, a woman might marry a man who is more intelligent than she is about money, but who hasn't a clue about raising children. Should he still be allowed to make the final decision about how to raise their children, even if his decisions are wrong?

What are your suggestions for already existing marriages where the women might have been unfortunate enough to marry a man who might not know better than they do? Should the women still give in and do whatever they are told to do by the men?

Scigirl, for instance, should marry a Nobel laureate rather than a garbage truck driver - unless she sees something in him she can respect and follow.

I don't see why a marriage has to be a question of leader and follower - and why that follower should always be female.

By the way, even if scigirl marries a Nobel laureate, that's no guarantee that he will be more intelligent than her in every respect - just in his particular field.

Again, it's rather like the President signing off on an idea presented by his cabinet members. No one is smart enough to know everything. The question is one of where the buck stops.

And the buck stops when the man says it stops, is that right? No matter what his other qualifications are, he is the husband and therefore he has the final say - would that be an accurate summation of your point?

No one is smart enough to know everything. That goes for husbands too. If they don't know everything, how can they automatically have the authority to make the final decision?

Doing it the other way around will make her his mommy.

But doing it this way does not make him her daddy? Why not?

Besides the fact that she will soon get disgusted with having that kind of power,

Are you making a generalization about all women here - that they are not comfortable or will not be comfortable making final decisions in their marriages?

it inspires contempt for the dad in the children, who know intuitively who ought to bear the burden of responsibility.

How do children know this intuitively? Are there some things children are just born knowing, so that if they happen to be born into, for example, a culture where their mother's brother rather than their father disciplines them, they somehow know this is wrong?

Why, moreover, should a man bear the burden of responsibility? Is a woman too weak to share this burden?

Husbands saying "Yes dear" has become a running joke; but like jokes about death, it covers up something ugly.

I'm not sure if wives who also say little beyond "Yes dear" has become a running joke, but I see nothing funny about either of the two being prescribed as the standard all marriages should follow.

Calzaer

Woohoo! Christian Tag-Team debating!

Fatherphil is getting trampled, so he tags out to yguy with a completely different style! Watch that goalpost move! As soon as yguy gets in trouble, he'll tag fatherphil back, and we'll, again, have to start debating the worth of a penis.

This is why Christianity is so stupid. Which one of you is the True Christian(tm)? And would it hurt so much to keep your crap out of the arena until you can at least agree amongst yourselves what you crap consists of?

fatherphil

you guys really seem to be hung up on anatomy.

qos, "we" as in you, me, all of society.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by fatherphil
you guys really seem to be hung up on anatomy.

If anatomy is one of the reasons why men wield authority over women, why should we not discuss it? It is a pity that you cannot or will not participate in the discussion to answer more of the questions you were asked.

qos, "we" as in you, me, all of society.

You are speaking on behalf of all of society, myself included?

What gives you the right to speak on my behalf, or the right to speak for "all of society", if this is indeed what you mean?

alek0

Why, that's because he is a man of course Men like him of course know better what women need and want, especially such gender confused specimens like those found on this board.

Nowhere357

What exactly is "natural authority"? Might makes right? The Bible? Something else?

Submission?

scigirl

Who said anything about kids??

scigirl

scigirl

fatherphil,

I was wondering if you agreed with yguy's statements here:
Just wanting to get another theist perspective on this issue, if you don't mind, fatherphil. If you agree - why? If not, why not?

Moving along - you mentioned that we are hung up on anatomy. But here's a catch-22 for you to sort out. If indeed it is anatomy (or rather genetics) that makes men more intelligent and more capable of making decisions, then well that's the way it is and there's not a lot of use fighting it. If it'snot anatomy, than it's something else, right?

To agree with yguy's sentiments above, it seems to me you have to do a few things, phil. First you have to prove that differences in intelligence, decision-making, child-rearing (except for breastfeeding obviously) actually exist at a statistically significant level. Second, in order to say that these differences are immutable, and shouldn't even attempt to be changed, you have to show that they are truly biological or genetic. If there are no differences, then well this argument is fundamentally flawed. If these differences do exist, but are more a product of environment than genetics, then the argument is flawed on a different level.

I do agree that biology, and history, has dictated certain roles for men and women. Women obviously carry the child so they have that role. Men in the past have been the breadwinner (probably simply because men are stronger, and the ancestral "career" needed strength). Ignoring these facts of history would be a bad thing.

But equally bad is ignoring the fact that these roles could have had a damaging effect on society. I was thinking about mother's day versus father's day this weekend - mother's day is always seen as a special day, and advertisements and movies they play on TV reflect this. Father's day, in contrast, is apparently an excuse to buy expensive things at Home Depot. The little MSN pop-up ad for mother's day was some sappy lovey picture of a mom. The ad for father's day - a picture of Jack Nickleson from The Shining and a list of the worst fathers ever! If I was a father, I would be upset at this cultural phenomenon. Just because it's always been that way doesn't make it right.

I know a few single fathers, and they have struggled to gain respect because of this alleged "role" that biology and history have designated for them. Instead of insisting on elevating motherhood, why not elevate fatherhood to a similar status? Different does not necessarily mean unequal. Maybe fathers in the 1950's wanted to stay home with their kids on occasion instead of being the breadwinner all the time? How different would our society be if both men and women realized their full potential, instead of sticking to poorly defined gender roles and glass ceilings? I was lucky to have parents who both played an active role in the money making and the child rearing. When a decision had to be made, sometimes my mom got her way, sometimes my dad got his.

I wonder how many other kids would benefit from such a crazy idea?

scigirl

Jennie

I've thought that it would in fact be better for the children if we went back to a more extended family structure. Sometimes even two parents don't seem like enough to me! And I do worry about how age-divided our society is, to see their grandparents and their friends on a daily basis would be good for kids I think.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by scigirl
Who said anything about kids??

Well, you've got to have kids, sci, that's your natural role as a woman and a sign of your respect for your superior, that you provide a safe and nurturing environment for the maturation of his seed. What are you, some kind of uterus-less freak? Geesh. Stop being so selfish already and start ovulating!