Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shadowy Man · 01-19-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
That depends on what kind of blackmail they're using with their version of Pascal's Wager.

I was thinking more in terms of a superior alien force on a "crusade". "Convert or die!"

I think most people are pretty much immune to Pascal's Wager.

winstonjen · 01-19-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
I was thinking more in terms of a superior alien force on a "crusade". "Convert or die!"

I suppose. Then again, Mutually Assured Destruction would fuck both our races up.

Quote:

I think most people are pretty much immune to Pascal's Wager.

You'd be surprised. Fear can be an extremely effective weapon, especially on weak-minded people.

Shadowy Man · 01-19-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen

You'd be surprised. Fear can be an extremely effective weapon, especially on weak-minded people.

I guess what I meant was that I doubt most Christians would stop believing in Jesus if an alien said to them they'd go to their version of hell if they didn't believe in their god.

winstonjen · 01-19-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
I guess what I meant was that I doubt most Christians would stop believing in Jesus if an alien said to them they'd go to their version of hell if they didn't believe in their god.

Would that be because they'd think the aliens were 'angels' that came down from 'heaven'?

Shadowy Man · 01-19-2003, 01:52 PM

It would be interesting to study the history of how the Christians managed to infect various countries and cultures with their religion. Whether it was done by force, or more surreptitiously.

Did they just say "convert or die!" or did they establish themselves in the country first and then slowly work their way underneath the skin of the natives?

Marduk · 01-19-2003, 03:21 PM

�Did they just say "convert or die!" or did they establish themselves in the country first and then slowly work their way underneath the skin of the natives?�

It seems like they did both, the former in the New World the latter in old Europe.

And long winded fool may have a point. It�s possible with the collapse of a religious foundation for morality the whole society could collapse into a free for all. Atheism is only a disbelief in gods not a moral or political system. Atheism and reason do not necessarily equal compassion or even justice. See �Joe the Lion� Stalin. And I�ve seen �reasonable�, intelligent �enlightened� non believers bicker, fight and argue just like any other naked ape.

01-19-2003, 04:00 PM

This is true. Just look at the feud between American Atheists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. It's almost like Catholic vs. Protestant.

Marduk · 01-19-2003, 04:31 PM

"This is true. Just look at the feud between American Atheists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. It's almost like Catholic vs. Protestant."

"The only thing worse than the Romans is the Judean Peoples Front!"

I thought you were the Judean Peoples Front?!

NO! We are the Peoples Front of Judea!"

What happened to the Popular Front of Judea?

He's over there!

SPLITTER!!!"

Marduk · 01-20-2003, 09:38 AM

"A step away from the past towards enlightenment or at least away from the need and institutions of gods. "

After reading through the post on why religion persists I doubt this will happen. Unless this Enlightenment/Atheism offers more than "you are a short lived piece of meat with no purpose living in a random meaningless universe, have a nice day"

braces_for_impact · 01-20-2003, 09:58 AM

As a side thought, I wonder how religion, and christianity in particular would adapt if we were visited by extra terrestrials.

As far as most religions are concerned, humanity (if not a particular ethnic/regional type) is god's favorite. What would happen if that were challenged?

Would these religions give the new infidels 'automatic coverage'?
Would they be capable of salvation?
Would they be deemed to have souls?

Does this mean that Jesus died on every planet in the universe which harbors intelligent life (Wouldn't want that job!) or was Jesus' sacrifice somehow communicated to these other worlds?

If you live on Alpha Centauri, which way is Mecca so you can pray?

If your hindu, how many thousands of gods now have to be added to the pantheon to take into account lifeforms on another planet?

Do the communion wafers still taste like crap in the Leo constellation?

How did the animals from Alpha Centauri get to the Ark now?

Is the bible now just god's inspired work for the planet or the universe? Do we have to take the aliens' religious texts and mix them with ours now? How is this all going to work?

When Jesus returns, will it be to each and every planet in the universe or are all the universe's inhabitants going to show up in Israel and make it really crowded? Come to think of it will aliens rapture? What if this particular alien lives on a planet that rivals Venus for heat? Will hell really be heaven for them then?

Now I'm confused...

Thanks for bearing with me, I'm in a really weird mood.

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01-19-2003, 01:52 PM	#15
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	It would be interesting to study the history of how the Christians managed to infect various countries and cultures with their religion. Whether it was done by force, or more surreptitiously. Did they just say "convert or die!" or did they establish themselves in the country first and then slowly work their way underneath the skin of the natives?

01-19-2003, 03:21 PM	#16
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	�Did they just say "convert or die!" or did they establish themselves in the country first and then slowly work their way underneath the skin of the natives?� It seems like they did both, the former in the New World the latter in old Europe. And long winded fool may have a point. It�s possible with the collapse of a religious foundation for morality the whole society could collapse into a free for all. Atheism is only a disbelief in gods not a moral or political system. Atheism and reason do not necessarily equal compassion or even justice. See �Joe the Lion� Stalin. And I�ve seen �reasonable�, intelligent �enlightened� non believers bicker, fight and argue just like any other naked ape.

01-19-2003, 04:00 PM	#17
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	This is true. Just look at the feud between American Atheists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. It's almost like Catholic vs. Protestant.

01-19-2003, 04:31 PM	#18
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"This is true. Just look at the feud between American Atheists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. It's almost like Catholic vs. Protestant." "The only thing worse than the Romans is the Judean Peoples Front!" I thought you were the Judean Peoples Front?! NO! We are the Peoples Front of Judea!" What happened to the Popular Front of Judea? He's over there! SPLITTER!!!"

01-20-2003, 09:38 AM	#19
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"A step away from the past towards enlightenment or at least away from the need and institutions of gods. " After reading through the post on why religion persists I doubt this will happen. Unless this Enlightenment/Atheism offers more than "you are a short lived piece of meat with no purpose living in a random meaningless universe, have a nice day"

01-20-2003, 09:58 AM	#20
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	As a side thought, I wonder how religion, and christianity in particular would adapt if we were visited by extra terrestrials. As far as most religions are concerned, humanity (if not a particular ethnic/regional type) is god's favorite. What would happen if that were challenged? Would these religions give the new infidels 'automatic coverage'? Would they be capable of salvation? Would they be deemed to have souls? Does this mean that Jesus died on every planet in the universe which harbors intelligent life (Wouldn't want that job!) or was Jesus' sacrifice somehow communicated to these other worlds? If you live on Alpha Centauri, which way is Mecca so you can pray? If your hindu, how many thousands of gods now have to be added to the pantheon to take into account lifeforms on another planet? Do the communion wafers still taste like crap in the Leo constellation? How did the animals from Alpha Centauri get to the Ark now? Is the bible now just god's inspired work for the planet or the universe? Do we have to take the aliens' religious texts and mix them with ours now? How is this all going to work? When Jesus returns, will it be to each and every planet in the universe or are all the universe's inhabitants going to show up in Israel and make it really crowded? Come to think of it will aliens rapture? What if this particular alien lives on a planet that rivals Venus for heat? Will hell really be heaven for them then? Now I'm confused... Thanks for bearing with me, I'm in a really weird mood.

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