Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rebelnerd · 06-24-2002, 09:42 AM

I find the entire thing very sad. I'm sad that young lives are ended, I'm sad that young lives were lived under the deception of theism and I'm sad that parents think that prayer will do something.

Filo

yahwehyadayada · 06-24-2002, 10:22 AM

Hello, you have reached gawd. All of our representatives are busy at this time. Your call really isn't important to us at all, but don't tell anyone else that. Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received. Approximate waiting time is 5,999 years. Please stay on the line, unless you are about to participate in a sporting event, in which case, hit the pound sign, because gawd is inordinately interested in the outcome of all sporting events. Thank you for calling gawd, & may the peace which passeth all understanding....well you know the rest. Please continue to hold.............................................

Jimmy Higgins · 06-24-2002, 10:41 AM

Of course, recently in my home town, a newborn was killed by its christian mother. So the question remains, what happens to the newborn? It didn't have time to be an unbeliever or a believer. And the soul barely existed.

Here's to the complicated simplicity of christianity.

ManM · 06-24-2002, 10:43 AM

They are praying because they care about those kids on the bus and that is all they can do right now.

-DM- · 06-24-2002, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
. . .
As much as I sympathize as to the inefficacy of prayer and the non-existence of a non-existent god's purpose, perhaps this is not the time to criticize those who are praying and/or philosophizing over the "meaning" of this tragedy. If doing so helps them deal with the tragedy, then they, at least, may be gaining some psychological/emotional benefit, in spite of the fact that, in the long run, their efforts are misguided.

If this is NOT a good time or place to criticize those who would pray after the fact of a tragedy such as this, I'd like to know where the right time and place are.

My opinion is that in the long run, we are far better off to make what we believe accord with reality than we are to continue to find some alleged psychological/emotional benefit in believing in rubbish. As Nathaniel Branden puts it in his Psychology of Self-Esteem:

Quote:

Nathaniel Branden:
Mental health requires of man that he place no value above perception, i.e., no value above consciousness, i.e., no value above reality. ... There is no greater self-delusion than to imagine that one can render unto reason that which is reason's and unto faith that which is faith's. ... Anyone who engages in the practice of psychotherapy confronts every day the devastation wrought by the teachings of religion. ... If preventive therapy is every psychologist's and psychiatrist's professed dream, then an expose of the harmful consequences of childhood exposure to religion is a pretty good place to begin.

--Don--

-DM- · 06-24-2002, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
They are praying because they care about those kids on the bus and that is all they can do right now.

There is no certainty that this is correct. For one thing, at the time, the kids were off the bus. My guess is that they were praying for the welfare of the kids in the hospital, the survivors. And that isn't all that they can do. They can try to make sure that the kids get the very best medical attention. THAT would be far more effective and a better use of their time and effort.

--Don--

ManM · 06-24-2002, 11:17 AM

Don,
If in fact those people are praying instead of doing something productive, then yes, I find a problem with it. But if they can do no more, I find their prayer to be very noble indeed.

Toto · 06-24-2002, 11:26 AM

I have been told that church owned buses are sometimes exempt from safety laws and regulations, and as a consequence have a poor safety record. Perhaps these people could spend their time better by working for more government regulation to prevent accidents such as this, or to lessen the injuries when they do happen.

sidewinder · 06-24-2002, 11:38 AM

Ok, maybe I missed something here, but what's with Christians praying about tragedies after they happen? It makes no sense to me. Doesn't it occur to these people even once to question why if their god is so good he allowed it to happen in the first place? I know they'll make excuses for their god so he escapes responsbility but I wonder if they even question it. It's like after 9/11, we kept hearing that we should pray. Pray for what? The damage was done.

Joel · 06-24-2002, 12:19 PM

Quote:

If in fact those people are praying instead of doing something productive, then yes, I find a problem with it. But if they can do no more, I find their prayer to be very noble indeed.

I'm confused - how is conversing with an imaginary friend noble? It serves no purpose and does nothing useful for the victims or their families.

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06-24-2002, 09:42 AM	#11
rebelnerd Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: 47°30'27" North, 122°20'51" West - Folding@Home Posts: 600	I find the entire thing very sad. I'm sad that young lives are ended, I'm sad that young lives were lived under the deception of theism and I'm sad that parents think that prayer will do something. Filo

06-24-2002, 10:22 AM	#12
yahwehyadayada Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: WI Posts: 290	Hello, you have reached gawd. All of our representatives are busy at this time. Your call really isn't important to us at all, but don't tell anyone else that. Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received. Approximate waiting time is 5,999 years. Please stay on the line, unless you are about to participate in a sporting event, in which case, hit the pound sign, because gawd is inordinately interested in the outcome of all sporting events. Thank you for calling gawd, & may the peace which passeth all understanding....well you know the rest. Please continue to hold.............................................

06-24-2002, 10:41 AM	#13
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Of course, recently in my home town, a newborn was killed by its christian mother. So the question remains, what happens to the newborn? It didn't have time to be an unbeliever or a believer. And the soul barely existed. Here's to the complicated simplicity of christianity.

06-24-2002, 10:43 AM	#14
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	They are praying because they care about those kids on the bus and that is all they can do right now.

06-24-2002, 11:17 AM	#17
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	Don, If in fact those people are praying instead of doing something productive, then yes, I find a problem with it. But if they can do no more, I find their prayer to be very noble indeed.

06-24-2002, 11:26 AM	#18
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I have been told that church owned buses are sometimes exempt from safety laws and regulations, and as a consequence have a poor safety record. Perhaps these people could spend their time better by working for more government regulation to prevent accidents such as this, or to lessen the injuries when they do happen.

06-24-2002, 11:38 AM	#19
sidewinder Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omnipresent Posts: 234	Ok, maybe I missed something here, but what's with Christians praying about tragedies after they happen? It makes no sense to me. Doesn't it occur to these people even once to question why if their god is so good he allowed it to happen in the first place? I know they'll make excuses for their god so he escapes responsbility but I wonder if they even question it. It's like after 9/11, we kept hearing that we should pray. Pray for what? The damage was done.

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