Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Fr.Andrew · 06-29-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Partly fulfilled ( Jesus was the child born in israel, and the son given to the world from God). The rest will be fulfilled at His return.

Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

(Fr Andrew): Thanks, but...still nothing about a 2nd coming.

winstonjen · 06-29-2003, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EstherRose
If they really believed they would not get away with it. The Holy Spirit resides in believers and convicts us when we stray from God. By this I mean the Spirit lets us know that we are not in God�s will. A true believer strives to follow the Lord�s will. Unfortunately many unbelievers such as yourself seem to think that Christians believe they can do anything they want once they are saved. We can�t. We occasionally falter, but the Spirit reminds us in a way we can�t ignore that we are not within the Lord�s will.

Hey, the god of the OT indulged in numerous acts of genocide, so how do you know they WEREN'T doing god's will? After all, that's what Hitler told them. And Christianity can become a vicious cycle - sin, get forgiven. Sin, get forgiven, etc. ad infinitum. That's the problem with having punishment removed so easily.

winstonjen · 06-29-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

John 3
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God

Translation: God felt guilty about his chronic anger problems, and sacrificed himself to himself to make himself feel better.

Javaman · 06-29-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evangelion
"When cornered by a Christian with an unanswerable rebuttal, just throw out a straw man, dodge the original question and change the subject as soon as possible." Wow, I'm impressed. You get a little golf clap for that one.

Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap.

Oh, and here's some advice to go with it: next time just answer the question, shmuck.

Was this for me??? Why the quotes? Why the name calling? The answer to her question (which I thought was obvious given the rest of my answer) was, "the people that started Christianity."

Regardless, if EstherRose thought I was evading the question with my answer, she could have said so and I'd have elaborated. It was not your question to answer and I'm pretty pissed off at being called a "shmuck."

Magus55 · 06-29-2003, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fr.Andrew
(Fr Andrew): Thanks, but...still nothing about a 2nd coming.

Um yes it does - It describes his judgement and return to the Earth to reign as King, which is further confirmed by Matthew, John and Revelation. What, do you expect it to say the words, second coming?

Jeremy Pallant · 06-29-2003, 09:50 PM

[MODERATOR]

Two points. Firstly, this has gotten way off topic. If you want to discuss subjects other than the OP, start a new thread.

Secondly, enough with the insults already. This is Bibilical Criticism and History, not Abuse. It is also one of the upper fora, and as such participants are expected to demonstrate a degree of decorum.

If we are unable to return to the subject in the OP, or incapable of being polite, I will have to close the thread.

[/MODERATOR]

Fr.Andrew · 06-30-2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Um yes it does - It describes his judgement and return to the Earth to reign as King, which is further confirmed by Matthew, John and Revelation. What, do you expect it to say the words, second coming?

(Fr Andrew): Where do you read anything in your cut and paste about a "return"? I can't find it. Some of that is messianic prophecy (some isn't), but none says anything about a messiah coming once, then going away, then returning to clear up unfinished business.
The words "2nd Coming" aren't necessary, of course, but something from (Jewish) scripture to that effect would be nice.
Thanks.
I don't know if this is off topic or not at this point--it seems to tie in with the Christian myth that they're the recipients of a new covenant.
Maybe I'll start a new thread.

Javaman · 06-30-2003, 03:23 AM

So, "Must Christians obey Old Testament Laws?" I think the consensus is no, they are under no obligation to. Maybe we should be asking, "Are there any Christian sects that follow the laws of the OT?"

winstonjen · 06-30-2003, 03:25 AM

To the OP, I feel that people have a natural inclination to follow as few rules as possible, so they will tend to find ways to get out of following laws they dislike.

mark9950 · 06-30-2003, 09:06 AM

You never responded to my previous reply on this topic.

I am puzzled why you have not responded?

Is it because you cannot?

06-30-2003, 09:06 AM	#130
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Magus You never responded to my previous reply on this topic. I am puzzled why you have not responded? Is it because you cannot?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-29-2003, 09:50 PM	#126
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	[MODERATOR] Two points. Firstly, this has gotten way off topic. If you want to discuss subjects other than the OP, start a new thread. Secondly, enough with the insults already. This is Bibilical Criticism and History, not Abuse. It is also one of the upper fora, and as such participants are expected to demonstrate a degree of decorum. If we are unable to return to the subject in the OP, or incapable of being polite, I will have to close the thread. [/MODERATOR]

06-30-2003, 03:23 AM	#128
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	So, "Must Christians obey Old Testament Laws?" I think the consensus is no, they are under no obligation to. Maybe we should be asking, "Are there any Christian sects that follow the laws of the OT?"

06-30-2003, 03:25 AM	#129
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	To the OP, I feel that people have a natural inclination to follow as few rules as possible, so they will tend to find ways to get out of following laws they dislike.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.