Freethought & Rationalism Archive

moon · 02-12-2003, 10:09 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2755851.stm

According to the BBC, Iraq has flouted United Nations restrictions by developing a missile which surpasses the mandated range of Iraqi missiles by -- get this -- 7 miles. Yes, in the latest revelations of Iraqi iniquity, U.N. spies ...err, inspectors... have discovered an Iraqi missile program that is in violation of their rules. According to the BBC,

"...the finding could strengthen the hand of those calling for military action against Baghdad."

I suppose so. I mean, technically it is correct: the finding could strengthen the hands of the war mongers. Yes, the surpassing of a mandated range by 7 miles could strengthen this hand.

If you are fucking insane, it could!

If you are sane, though, and have retained some shred of human decency, you would realize that this is a trivial matter blown up to ridiculous proportions by war mongering motherfuckers in order to justify an impending slaughter. If you were sane, and not a corporate lackey, like the BBC, you would note that this hardly constitutes a "breach."

It is sad to see the BBC turned into the propaganda arm of 10 Downing Street.

(Edited to add a missing 0 for Celsus.)

Celsus · 02-12-2003, 10:10 PM

Edited:

queue · 02-13-2003, 07:09 AM

Iraq agreed to a ceasefire agreement which had United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 . This resolution includes

Quote:

8. Decides that shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of:

a. All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities;

b. All ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities;

So if Iraq has even 1 ballistic missile with a range greater than 150 kilometres (over 11 years after agreeing to the ceasefire agreement) then it constitutes a breach of the ceasefire agreement.

Amen-Moses · 02-13-2003, 07:32 AM

Doesn't the range of a missile depend somewhat on what you stick in the warhead?

Amen-Moses

simian · 02-13-2003, 07:43 AM

Yes. More energy (fuel) to get heavier items "up". I assume it would also depend on the factor or safty built into fuel calcuations. For example, my car will routinely get 36-37 mpg on the interstate. That does not mean that if I have 10 gallons of gas I am going to assume I can actually get my car 360 miles down the road before fueling up - especially if I may have ha strong headwind. Anybody see any info on how far over the range limit this missile is alleged to be? And what assumptions are thrown into the range limit?

Simian

Edited to add:

Found it (or part of it anyway):

Quote:

A panel of independent arms experts told the U.N. the range of Iraq's Al Samoud 2 rockets exceeded by up to 24 miles the 93-mile limit laid down by U.N. arms controls.

From: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_nm/iraq_dc

25% longer range than allowed if the independent experts are correct - looks to me like this will boil down to the assumptions that are made.

Three-Three · 02-13-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moon
If you are sane, though, and have retained some shred of human decency, you would realize that this is a trivial matter blown up to ridiculous proportions by war mongering motherfuckers in order to justify an impending slaughter.

The only *impending slaughter* I forsee will be just like the last Iraqi war... One Big Old Texas-style Barbeque for the tens-of-thousands of motherfuckers who will be surrendering to CNN crews. Will feed 'em, bed 'em, and then send their sorry asses home.

I think the Brits lost more to American friendly fire than to Iraqi tanks. And we Yanks lost more to a few stray scuds than anything else.

Re-fucking-lax.

DarkBronzePlant · 02-13-2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Three-Three
The only *impending slaughter* I forsee will be just like the last Iraqi war... One Big Old Texas-style Barbeque for the tens-of-thousands of motherfuckers who will be surrendering to CNN crews. Will feed 'em, bed 'em, and then send their sorry asses home.

I think the Brits lost more to American friendly fire than to Iraqi tanks. And we Yanks lost more to a few stray scuds than anything else.

Re-fucking-lax.

I think he's referring to the slaughter of Iraqis, not Americans or Brits. Iraqis, you know, those wacky, sub-human creatures over yonder that most of us pay lip service to but really don't give a shit whether they live or die? (note to the dense: some of that was sarcasm)

Three-Three · 02-13-2003, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkBronzePlant
I think he's referring to the slaughter of Iraqis, not Americans or Brits. Iraqis, you know, those wacky, sub-human creatures over yonder that most of us pay lip service to but really don't give a shit whether they live or die?

Well, I'm of the opinion that not one American soldier's life is worth several thousand of those wacky creatures (subhuman or not). Of course, you are of another opinion, which I respect, generally. But I'm on this side of the impending conflict and you are somewhere in the middle.

However, the anti-war histronics I've read/heard lately is just that...a bit over the top. There is not going to be a slaughter, in any way, wheter Iraqis, Brits, Americans, or wise-asses from Boulder.

Quote:

(note to the dense: some of that was sarcasm)

(Yeah. We got it. Note to you. Not too much unike my *slaughter* reference and the Texas BBQ. Yee haaa.)

DarkBronzePlant · 02-13-2003, 08:56 AM

Quote:

(Yeah. We got it. Note to you. Not too much unike my *slaughter* reference and the Texas BBQ. Yee haaa.)

Well, I felt the need to throw that in there; sometimes sarcasm doesn't carry to well in an online bulletin board. Couple that with a forum where people are just itching to jump all over your shit and, well, you got it...

HaysooChreesto! · 02-13-2003, 08:59 AM

The whole point of this ordeal is that Iraq has overstepped the terms of the cease fire agreement time after time.
Sure, it's only several miles with this one, sure they've fired at U.N. aircraft myriad times over the past decade, but they didn't actually shoot one down, so what if they only found a few chemical weapons so far, so what if they're being evasive during inspections, so what if they're not allowing scientists to be interviewed freely. And what's the big deal about Saddam jerking around with the food for oil program? Who wouldn't take that food, sell it and then build themselves a gaggle of palaces?

The only catch to all these many, many, little (and some not so little) things was that Iraq would face further military action against itself. Whoooooops!

The whole point of taking out Hussein at this point is to take care of unfinished business that should have been taken care of years ago. Same with Bin Laden.
The Clinton administration let all the ugly stuff go because it was easier to just ignore it-except when the Executive Studmuffin was getting blown by fat broads. Then action was necessary.

I don't give a damn if Iraq has chemical weapons or has ties to Al Qaeda. The facts are that they have screwed around with the rules they agreed to and now it's time to pay the piper.

02-12-2003, 10:09 PM	#1
moon Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: former British colony Posts: 2,013	The BBC propaganda machine. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2755851.stm According to the BBC, Iraq has flouted United Nations restrictions by developing a missile which surpasses the mandated range of Iraqi missiles by -- get this -- 7 miles. Yes, in the latest revelations of Iraqi iniquity, U.N. spies ...err, inspectors... have discovered an Iraqi missile program that is in violation of their rules. According to the BBC, "...the finding could strengthen the hand of those calling for military action against Baghdad." I suppose so. I mean, technically it is correct: the finding could strengthen the hands of the war mongers. Yes, the surpassing of a mandated range by 7 miles could strengthen this hand. If you are fucking insane, it could! If you are sane, though, and have retained some shred of human decency, you would realize that this is a trivial matter blown up to ridiculous proportions by war mongering motherfuckers in order to justify an impending slaughter. If you were sane, and not a corporate lackey, like the BBC, you would note that this hardly constitutes a "breach." It is sad to see the BBC turned into the propaganda arm of 10 Downing Street. (Edited to add a missing 0 for Celsus.)

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02-12-2003, 10:10 PM	#2
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Edited:

02-13-2003, 07:32 AM	#4
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	Doesn't the range of a missile depend somewhat on what you stick in the warhead? Amen-Moses

02-13-2003, 08:59 AM	#10
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	The whole point of this ordeal is that Iraq has overstepped the terms of the cease fire agreement time after time. Sure, it's only several miles with this one, sure they've fired at U.N. aircraft myriad times over the past decade, but they didn't actually shoot one down, so what if they only found a few chemical weapons so far, so what if they're being evasive during inspections, so what if they're not allowing scientists to be interviewed freely. And what's the big deal about Saddam jerking around with the food for oil program? Who wouldn't take that food, sell it and then build themselves a gaggle of palaces? The only catch to all these many, many, little (and some not so little) things was that Iraq would face further military action against itself. Whoooooops! The whole point of taking out Hussein at this point is to take care of unfinished business that should have been taken care of years ago. Same with Bin Laden. The Clinton administration let all the ugly stuff go because it was easier to just ignore it-except when the Executive Studmuffin was getting blown by fat broads. Then action was necessary. I don't give a damn if Iraq has chemical weapons or has ties to Al Qaeda. The facts are that they have screwed around with the rules they agreed to and now it's time to pay the piper.

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